Re: General chat

[barocca]

for an unexplained reason i have been dismissed with no notice or warning from the org staff,
i am not impressed,
i believe little in coincidence.
B.

[^HUN^]

What??!!
I noticed for a while that you were 'moderator' as opposed to 'admin' and that made me wonder, this development just goes to show how pathetically childish people can be.
Little wonder the MP community left .org en masse.

[^Marcus Cornelius^]

So sad.

I cannot believe that the reason was what you are thinking. Surely misunderstanding.

Marcus

[^Glyndwr^]

for an unexplained reason i have been dismissed with no notice or warning from the org staff,
i am not impressed,

Where is the etiquette and honourable actions of a group, where a member of staff can be dismissed without first being given a warning and reason why?
Nowhere on the .org have I seen anything that you have done that can warrant this dismissal.
If it is a case of 'sour grapes' then the least they could have done is warn you.

I had already noticed for some time that you had been relegated from Admin to Moderator.

As a past Administrator of an organisation, I had to have a good reason before a moderator was 'demoted' and then only after that person had been warned about the reason why this action would be taken and given the chance to correct it.

[^Glyndwr^]

Admin edit:-I have split this topic to keep it separate from the beta discussions.

[^Tomisama^]

for an unexplained reason i have been dismissed with no notice or warning from the org staff,
i am not impressed,
i believe little in coincidence.
B.

Unfortunately, this sounds too familiar.

I am seriously considering removing The Code of Honor from the Org forums.

They seem to have no use for it!

[^HUN^]

I just read your last post on the bORG. Are you seriously saying that your sacking/demotion was following a discussion with Takiyama members as a direct response to adding Mongols to the mod they liked to claim as their own?

I remember well all the underhanded nonsense that went on during the Tera incident. Frankly, if you play with fire you sometimes get burned...and Tera did. It was his own fault, no good having a go at the Wolves or certain individuals, he got caught and was exposed. A certain moderator resigned from the bORG until Kuma resigned as admin (he didn't seem to have any support) Surprise, surprise, suddenly the same moderator reappears as admin and starts abusing his power by handing out posting bans to selected members. There were many heated posts, yet 'clannies' and 'friends' got away with it while others didn't. Here we go again.
It seems Takiyama like to be in control, they chased away nearly every MP player. The fact that the SamWars forum has become a ghost town and now this, proves there is no coincidence.
The laughable part is the lack of individual thought. They all walk on the say so of one or two? What a bunch of children.

Kazemoto,
I don't think you will find a code of honour in a nest of rats, just a bad smell. The bORG has reared its ugly head again.

There is a funny side......None of them even play Total War.

[^Glyndwr^]

It seems Takiyama like to be in control, they chased away nearly every MP player. The fact that the SamWars forum has become a ghost town and now this, proves there is no coincidence.
The laughable part is the lack of individual thought. They all walk on the say so of one or two? What a bunch of children.

The old school kids saying...it's my ball and you can't play.

There is a funny side......None of them even play Total War.

Unfortunately that is not a funny side. They are determined to spoil MP for everyone unless it's played their way.

Unfortunately, this sounds too familiar.

I am seriously considering removing The Code of Honor from the Org forums.

They seem to have no use for it!

Unfortunately it is just 'the few' ^Kazemoto^ but, as the old saying goes....it only takes one bad apple to rot the whole barrel.

[CBR]

This might already be at a point of no return but I cannot sit idle anymore while watching all this hostility go on.

May I point out that if Takiyama/mizus/"the others" where so interested in having control, then why the hell did "we" then leave this mod so quietly. Some of us simply left as we, for various reasons, did not want to play anymore.

Those of us who no longer play are obviously no longer posting in the samwars forum and the rest moved on to this forum months ago. So is it any surprise that there is no activity on the Org forum anymore? Are "we" now to be blamed for that too? No one forced you to move to this forum.

Why assume it was lack of individual thought? Because people didnt actually say they were not interested anymore? I don't recall anyone sending me a PM or MSN asking me about it. No its much better to migrate to another forum and fantasize about why. I see lots of snide remarks and paranoia on this forum and it is actually rather painful for me to read it and then remembering we actually were clan mates and had lots of fun together not that long ago. Or maybe all that fun is just something I imagined?

Oh and having an undercover account used for remarks like "static" and "soapbox discussions" about the opinions of other players is hardly the most honourable thing. But ok I guess we all live by an individual definition of honour.

But let me end this post by showing my gratitude to Barocca for making SamWars possible. Without all your work I would not have had the best Total War MP that I experienced with beta5. It certainly helped lighten my mood back in the dark days of RTW beta 1.2 testing. It was a good 3 1/2 years and was fun while it lasted but everything has an end.




CBR

[barocca]

seeing i am being pursued and attacked here i will defend myself here also,


at the Org i made no direct or indirect attacks against anyone, i flamed no-one, insulted no-one,
i did not mention clans or names,
in fact i did nothing that could even earn a cautionary "zero point" warning, let alone a points warning

of the handful of posts i have made from my worksite account the worst post read "the mod has been fixed, yet now this forum falls silent?" or words to that effect

to be dismissed from my post without even being told that i was being dismissed, without being asked to respond or address anything at all, and then to be completely ignored until i went public - for THAT? - the truth reveals itself.

that posts of that obviously disgraceful language were deleted Before i was asked to respond to them brings into serious doubt the neutrality of the decision to remove me from my position.

No Doubt they could be reinserted into the threads concerned, but seeing the admin's neutrality has been compromised and the admin has the capability to edit anything on that forum i would really think twice about the validity of reinserted or revealed content.

[CBR]

I'm sorry if you feel me coming here means I'm pursuing and attacking you.

The deleted post from July 10th containing the following "is it that some just dont want mongols? ...at least your thread is not getting filled with "static" "

With so few posting in the samwars forum how could you think such a comment, even without mentioning any names, is ok? Now apparently it is ok within the rules to have multiple accounts but I certainly was shocked to hear it was you behind such comments. And as moderator you agreed with the rules incl the "dodgy undercover accounts" bit.

Now I do not know why Tosa has not been more informative and I have urged him to tell you, as I could see the paranoia just run even more wild with all the speculation. Apparently he saw little point in it and found reading some of the posts here depressing.


CBR

[^Glyndwr^]

Hello CBR and welcome to the ^Nomad Alliance^
and I do mean Welcome.

May I point out that if Takiyama/mizus/"the others" where so interested in having control, then why the hell did "we" then leave this mod so quietly. Some of us simply left as we, for various reasons, did not want to play anymore.

To me it seemed a coincidence that you all left off playing when barocca wanted to re activate The Mongols.
There were other disagreements over game play as well.

Those of us who no longer play are obviously no longer posting in the samwars forum and the rest moved on to this forum months ago. So is it any surprise that there is no activity on the Org forum anymore? Are "we" now to be blamed for that too? No one forced you to move to this forum.

If by this you are referring to HUN, Marcus and myself I have to correct you on this. This forum was set up in Sept 2005 just before BI when the then Orda, Marcus and Jochi Khan were playing RTW. Takiyama did not move over to RTW so we went out on our own.

I see lots of snide remarks and paranoia on this forum and it is actually rather painful for me to read it and then remembering we actually were clan mates and had lots of fun together not that long ago. Or maybe all that fun is just something I imagined?

Everyone is entitled to an opinion and allowed to express it on this forum as long as it is kept within the rules. The written word is not always read the same way by each and every person. Can you enlarge on this comment..snide remarks and paranoia?

Oh and having an undercover account used for remarks like "static" and "soapbox discussions" about the opinions of other players is hardly the most honourable thing.

Who is using an undercover account?

Admin Edit: Some questions already answered because you posted as I was typing this post.

[barocca]

and thats it?
the static comment?
of for $hits sake, thats not even worth a mention, it was stating the bleeding obvious and again not even a zero pointer. EVEN if i had NAMED NAMES in my moderator suit it's not worth a mention.

i have SEEN moderators SWEARING IN CLEAR at patrons and all they got was a rap on the knuckles, not deleted,
that they claim i am being punished for the static comment is even more ridiculous than for the "forum falls silent" comment,
at least "falls silent" could be considered a barb by an insecure paranoid, the static one could not.

ALSO You do realise that you have just confirmed that i am being punished for commentary OFF SITE,
and not for something i have done at the org.
read your post again my friend...

finally there is nothing dodgy about my worksite account, Tosa has known all about that account since it's creation, if such was a problem then he should have spoken up long ago.

I'm sorry if you feel me coming here means I'm pursuing and attacking you.

The deleted post from July 10th containing the following "is it that some just dont want mongols? ...at least your thread is not getting filled with "static" "

With so few posting in the samwars forum how could you think such a comment, even without mentioning any names, is ok? Now apparently it is ok within the rules to have multiple accounts but I certainly was shocked to hear it was you behind such comments. And as moderator you agreed with the rules incl the "dodgy undercover accounts" bit.

Now I do not know why Tosa has not been more informative and I have urged him to tell you, as I could see the paranoia just run even more wild with all the speculation. Apparently he saw little point in it and found reading some of the posts here depressing.


CBR

[CBR]

I am not saying this is the only thing, only what I know at this moment. Having extra accounts is not the problem, it is how they were used

And what did I confirm? Tosa expressed his opinion on reading this forum on Sep 21. He notified me about your multiple accounts on Sep 7. Saying it was not the first time and thats it's been enough. I wish Tosa would provide more details but so far that is all.


CBR

[^HUN^]

Call it what you will, snide, paranoid, flaming, I stand by every word. If that pains you it is something I can do little about.
You know all too well that I quit Takiyama long before RTW appeared on the shelves, that sorry episode with a certain clan infiltrator finished any looks I had on your clan. I found out exactly what my so called clan leader thought of me, he preferred to side with an obvious infiltrator and you chose to sit on the fence. Nobody seemed to care if these decisions pained me, did they?

Your clan leader was able to get away with a multitude of Troll posts without being pulled up for breaking rules. During past altercations he removed all his post content, so I'm not even interested in forum rule breaking. All I see are double standards and frankly, it's a joke.

CBR, your clan leader posted that he was "not interested in degraded gameplay". Apart from the unashamed arrogance of that remark, would you not take that and the cessation of Troll/promotive posts as an obvious sign? I'm not fantasizing about anything, I think you will recall you were invited to help with testing and we...that's you me and yuuki discussed it on MSN, so please, don't make out it was never mentioned. For quite some time we posted about test nights and had no response. You mention honourable behaviour, would it have been too much trouble to post that you were not interested? The abrupt silence leaves only one conclusion.

I remember reading posts by the v1.02 beta team, not exactly depressing but they were certainly eye opening.

Before I close I'll ask you to reflect. Yes, we had some fun and for the most part with mods for VI. I particularly enjoyed your Community mod but getting a group of players to play mods can be hard work. Considering the players who went to the trouble of installing and playing these mods, I find it disappointing that Takiyama especially, are so loathed to reciprocate.

[CBR]

Hello CBR and welcome to the ^Nomad Alliance^
and I do mean Welcome.

Thank you

To me it seemed a coincidence that you all left off playing when barocca wanted to re activate The Mongols.
There were other disagreements over game play as well.

Well I cant really speak for everyone but if I must give details then so be it.

Both Yuuki and I became less interested in playing already during the spring, as a few of the new players simply ruined game after game by what seemed to be lack of skill and/or interest in playing properly. One even stated he did not like spears which afterall is an important component in SamWars gameplay. Early spring was also the time when we started playing on both Saturday and Sunday. I did have whole weekends with not one good game.

Then came the summer break with EURO2008 and after that I found myself with even less interest in playing. That and the addition of the Mongols, which I did not see as an improvement to the great gameplay we had created, a Beta8 that worked again but also meant very few maps to play on, and having new stats to test which meant less even less fun for me. After participating in a few tests that showed Beta8 to work ok, it just felt best for me to stop.

I did have a chat with Orda on July 12 about my lack of interest in the game and about how some of the players were ruining it for me.

I think it is overall very similar for Yuuki with the following comment from Yuuki on MSN also from July 12:
12-07-2008 13:59:20 and receptonist calls my posts "static"
12-07-2008 13:59:30 the beginning of driving me out
12-07-2008 13:59:48 I'm not going to fight this.
12-07-2008 13:59:57 I'll do something else

Please note I'm not happy about quoting people from MSN talks but in this case I think it is appropriate.

So did the Mongols play a role? Same role as the last nail in the coffin yes.

Ras has been rather busy being in NZ during all this time. I know he was not happy with the stats he was testing back in mid August. And it seemed he simply wanted to let go too.

Tosa seems to have been quite busy for months now. I only spoke with him about the direction of the mod on Aug 17 and I guess with us not playing he had less interest too. Of course at that time he already knew about the discussions here so I'm sure those "who do not believe in coincidences" can add 2 and 2 together...

That should sum it up for "the others" as the way I see it and know about.

If by this you are referring to HUN, Marcus and myself I have to correct you on this. This forum was set up in Sept 2005 just before BI when the then Orda, Marcus and Jochi Khan were playing RTW. Takiyama did not move over to RTW so we went out on our own.

What I meant was how the Samwars discussion moved to this place instead. It seems it happened in July which is same time as it died out on Org.

Can you enlarge on this comment..snide remarks and paranoia?

Stuff like

"the others"

"the screenshot comp was rigged. i do not believe in coincidences."

merely i think THey try to get things too "sweet", unlike us THey have an "ideal" method of game play (being "Takeda Gun Wall") and they have rigged the stats to suit the "ideal",,

I think it would be better to leave your sig and links on .org. Removing them would be like admitting defeat

But you might be right. Written words can be understood in different ways.

I can see Orda has responded and I will answer that later today.


CBR

[BHCKingWarman88]

My turn to comment

Both Yuuki and I became less interested in playing already during the spring, as a few of the new players simply ruined game after game by what seemed to be lack of skill and/or interest in playing properly.

I thought the game was supposed to be play for fun CBR?

Also, you think all the players, including myself, that was not up to Clan Takiyama's skill level or any other's player's skill level (the better ones), that you guys are going to ignore them and quit over it? Yes, Real Nice

the screenshot comp was rigged.

No. I closed it to early, my damn mistake, made me look like a fool.

i do not believe in coincidences

Nethier do I Barocca. I got screwed eariler in the year also by TosaInu.

i have SEEN moderators SWEARING IN CLEAR at patrons

And I have seen people who should not be Moderators....Become AM's and/or Mods. And I seen people who should be Mods, who are not now because of things liek this (like you or me).


I believe that this is sad. I never had anything aganist barocca, and if he is getting booted because of this, it is a shame.

[^HUN^]

Ras has been rather busy being in NZ during all this time. I know he was not happy with the stats he was testing back in mid August. And it seemed he simply wanted to let go too.

One night.
How many incarnations do most mods go through? Do things fall neatly into place first time? I seem to remember testing version after version of SamWars.

12-07-2008 13:59:20 and receptonist calls my posts "static"
12-07-2008 13:59:30 the beginning of driving me out
12-07-2008 13:59:48 I'm not going to fight this.
12-07-2008 13:59:57 I'll do something else

Posting "degraded gameplay" is ok and acceptable, having a reply about "static" is not acceptable? If he is prepared to dish it out he should be prepared to take it as well, anything else is double standards.

[CBR]

I thought the game was supposed to be play for fun CBR?

Also, you think all the players, including myself, that was not up to Clan Takiyama's skill level or any other's player's skill level (the better ones), that you guys are going to ignore them and quit over it? Yes, Real Nice

If it is not fun for me to play then why should I keep playing it? For the sake of other players only?

We spent a considerable amount of time finding the right stats and costs to make a very good game. Seeing that in the hands of a couple of players who seemed incapable of changing from VI to Samwars, and I started wondering why I was spending my weekends on that.


CBR

[CBR]

You know all too well that I quit Takiyama long before RTW appeared on the shelves, that sorry episode with a certain clan infiltrator finished any looks I had on your clan. I found out exactly what my so called clan leader thought of me, he preferred to side with an obvious infiltrator and you chose to sit on the fence. Nobody seemed to care if these decisions pained me, did they?

Your post on Mizus forum about leaving is from July 04, 2005

But yes that episode was absolutely horrible for us. I know Yuuki blamed himself for all of it but I do feel I had some of the blame too. The guy was IIRC not an infiltrator but a nasty personality that is the closest to a sociopath I think I have ever encountered.

Your clan leader was able to get away with a multitude of Troll posts without being pulled up for breaking rules. During past altercations he removed all his post content, so I'm not even interested in forum rule breaking. All I see are double standards and frankly, it's a joke.

He did break them and he did get a warning. Should the moderator have gone in earlier? Maybe I do not know as I rarely read the MP forums. I remember he deleted a lot of posts. There was nothing bad in them IIRC. He was pissed off at something, what it was I don't remember.

...I think you will recall you were invited to help with testing and we...that's you me and yuuki discussed it on MSN, so please, don't make out it was never mentioned. For quite some time we posted about test nights and had no response. You mention honourable behaviour, would it have been too much trouble to post that you were not interested? The abrupt silence leaves only one conclusion.

Ideally I should have told you so and technically it would not have been much trouble. That is an unfortunate part of my personality disorder: anything that resembles a "confrontation" with someone that is close to me and I avoid it...out of sight out of mind. On the internet it is even easier to avoid stuff. It was the main reason I "chose to sit on the fence" as you put it. For that I am really sorry Orda.

Before I close I'll ask you to reflect. Yes, we had some fun and for the most part with mods for VI. I particularly enjoyed your Community mod but getting a group of players to play mods can be hard work. Considering the players who went to the trouble of installing and playing these mods, I find it disappointing that Takiyama especially, are so loathed to reciprocate.

Well TBH I do not feel I owe anyone anything. I have been taking the time needed for testing and stat adjustments. I have been playing this from the start and through periods where we were only a handful (the hardcore group) of players on Sundays. You cannot honestly expect me or anyone else to help testing and keep playing something they just dont want to do anymore.


CBR

[CBR]

One night.
How many incarnations do most mods go through? Do things fall neatly into place first time? I seem to remember testing version after version of SamWars.

Will you please cut him some slack. He is soon to move back to Germany. He has had other priorities.

Posting "degraded gameplay" is ok and acceptable, having a reply about "static" is not acceptable? If he is prepared to dish it out he should be prepared to take it as well, anything else is double standards.

I'd say there is a difference.

Just remember there is no single reason. From the harsh tone I sense, you already have made up your mind so it would be futile of me to tell you to ask him yourself.


CBR

[BHCKingWarman88]

I thought the game was supposed to be play for fun CBR?

Also, you think all the players, including myself, that was not up to Clan Takiyama's skill level or any other's player's skill level (the better ones), that you guys are going to ignore them and quit over it? Yes, Real Nice

If it is not fun for me to play then why should I keep playing it? For the sake of other players only?

We spent a considerable amount of time finding the right stats and costs to make a very good game. Seeing that in the hands of a couple of players who seemed incapable of changing from VI to Samwars, and I started wondering why I was spending my weekends on that.


CBR

Don't play then. But doesn't answer my question. So you mean that all players need to be Clan Takiyama And Friends skill level and if not, it is not fun? I can see lack of interest, but most of the time, there a reason behind the lack of Interest CBR.

We? Being Clan Takiyama or everyone involed in the mod?


Maybe Some People still like VI? plus, with a mindset of that, maybe that scared the VI players away?

I will still attend On Saturdays, no matter who shows up. Do what you will CBR.

[^HUN^]

CBR,
I mentioned R'as only in reply to what you posted ..."not happy with the stats he was testing back in August" ....merely pointing out that he tested on just one night, 3 games. I would not expect anyone to form such an opinion after only one night of testing. I expect he was very busy, I don't doubt that but I didn't mention him at all so I can't cut slack from something I didn't tighten.

I still see it as double standards when a person posts time and again, even in places that are not appropriate, yet gets upset at less than favourable response. Arrogant, aloof, conceited. Where is the justification for presuming degraded gameplay simply because Mongols were being activated? It is hardly surprising, at least to me, that such a remark would provoke retaliation.

I mentioned infiltrator because that is exactly what that individual was .... multi named even in his own clan and playing Takiyama for fools. He was exposed, I thought you knew that.
I understand what you say about your disorder, I myself tend to avoid people. I don't like towns and cities and I rarely even answer the phone, I am happiest when in some quiet place the further away from people the better. That does not alter the fact that I was let down. Me and Toda had to listen to a barrage of abuse, during a game after yuuki and that creep got caught out and routed. For the rest of the game we were accused of everything from lack of support to being useless but we won the game. I was very disappointed that yuuki chose to side with such a dispicable character so yes, it would be futile to ask me to speak to someone who treated me like shit.

When I asked you to reflect over past mods etc it was not my intention to suggest you or anyone else 'owed' anyone anything. I hoped you would be in a position to understand. You have already said how highly you regard beta 5 and 8 and a lot of people gave up a considerable amount of time to help achieve those stats.

I appreciate your apology. I hope you will agree that I have never shown any hostility towards you.
As for the future of this mod, I never expected it to attract a host of players, MP has different priorities now. That said, it really isn't that bad, I hope you try it some time.

[CBR]

Don't play then. But doesn't answer my question. So you mean that all players need to be Clan Takiyama And Friends skill level and if not, it is not fun? I can see lack of interest, but most of the time, there a reason behind the lack of Interest CBR.

We? Being Clan Takiyama or everyone involed in the mod?


Maybe Some People still like VI? plus, with a mindset of that, maybe that scared the VI players away?

I will still attend On Saturdays, no matter who shows up. Do what you will CBR.

Oh I'm sorry I misunderstood the last bit then.

No, anyone can play the mod and there has been a wide range of skill level already. Most players have developed their skill as they learned the mod. Now I had to check the logfiles to be sure and I did not see your name so you did not even encounter the players. Im sure others can remember that fake hunter_ichi player. I know others were not happy about him either so it is not just me being elitish or whatever you think.

We being Yuuki and I as that was who your post was directed at.

Fun is subjective and I know people have different expectations when playing a game. For me playing a 4v4 and knowing it will be ruined with either the silly deployment or massive cav charge from the same player over and over... well that is not fun to me. Had we been enough players then it would not have been a problem, but as we always tried to mix team to ensure both sides had a fighting chance it just became an endless stream of wasted games.


CBR

[^Glyndwr^]

If by this you are referring to HUN, Marcus and myself I have to correct you on this. This forum was set up in Sept 2005 just before BI when the then Orda Khan, Marcus and Jochi Khan were playing RTW. Takiyama did not move over to RTW so we went out on our own.

What I meant was how the Samwars discussion moved to this place instead. It seems it happened in July which is same time as it died out on Org.

To clarify some of the dates with/about this forum....

This forum ^Nomad Alliance^ has been in existance since Sept 2005 but on a different Server. Our original forum.
Due to problems with that Server it was decided to move to another Server but we had problems with the Server and the database. Not so easy to transfer all our forum over.
When creating a new forum back in April of this year, I had to manually copy all the posts from the older one to this new one and then asked all members, via email, to re activate their accounts. Marcus also had the task of copying all the information in the two Academy guides to this forum. (again, another lot of work)

If you look at earlier posts you can see the dates when first posted but all posts appear to be made by me from May 2008 onwards. It was not an easy task.

The forum was officially put online on the 15 June this year and the original one was deleted. (a condition of moving from one server to another)

The Samurai Warlords sub forum was set up back last year about mid to late August (when I was playing regularly) with the intention of promoting Samurai Warlords MP (check in the Samurai Warlords Beta5 MP. (General Discussion Topic)
All download links, Logo etc were posted with PM discussions with R'as (not to contravene copyright). R'as thanked me at the time for helping to spread the word as he said.

The fact that the Samurai Warlords discussions moved here may be because there was no further input by anyone else on .org. The fact that everyone who was playing at that time just stopped playing and also stopped posting.
We, at the ^Nomad Alliance^ did not ask for it to come here, it just arrived and we were happy to assist in the testing etc. etc.

Regarding this Topic...
There have been many questions asked and many answers given. Many points of view have been expressed. Agreements and disagreements voiced. Everyone has had their chance to say something. There should be no reason for any more imput.

As long as the discussions here remain civil and do not involve personalities this Topic will remain open.
It is intended for General Chat so keep it clean and non hostile.

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