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Mongol unit stats
by ^HUN^ Mon 21 Jul 2008, 10:38
Some tentative stats ....
Mongol Keshig
Men: 11
Cost 400
Charge bonus: 5
Attack factor: 4
Defense factor: 6
Armor: 5
Morale bonus: 8
Walk speed: 8
Run speed: 22
Charge speed: 24
Ammo: 12
Reload: 4 sec
Range 120 meters
Accuracy: 0.6
Lethality: 18%
Power: 1
Armor modifier: 0.5
Song Crossbowman
Men: 60
Cost 300
Charge bonus: 0
Attack factor: -7
Defense factor: -4 (-7)
Armor: 2
Morale bonus: 0
Walk speed: 7
Run speed: 12
Charge speed: 12
Ammo: 20
Reload: 21 sec
Range 100 meters
Accuracy: 0.12
Lethality: 72%
Power: 4
Armor modifier: 0.015
Korean Skirmishers
Men: 60
Cost 300
Charge bonus: 0
Attack factor: -2
Defense factor: 1
Armor: 2
Morale bonus: 4
Walk speed: 6
Run speed: 8
Charge speed: 10
Ammo: 3
Reload: 4 sec
Range 50 meters
Accuracy: 0.12
Lethality: 20%
Power: 4
Armor modifier: 1.0
Yuan Imperial Archers
Men: 60
Cost 400
Charge bonus: 2
Attack factor: 0
Defense factor: 0
Armor: 2
Morale bonus: 4
Walk speed: 6
Run speed: 10
Charge speed: 12
Ammo: 36
Reload: 4 sec
Range 100 meters
Accuracy: 0.6
Lethality: 12%
Power: 1
Armor modifier: 1.0
Korean Spearman
Men: 60
Cost 200
Charge bonus: 0
Attack factor: -1 (4)
Defense factor: -1 (-4)
Armor: 2
Morale bonus: 4
Walk speed: 7
Run speed: 12
Charge speed: 14
Korean Guardsman
Men: 60
Cost 700
Charge bonus: 2
Attack factor: 0
Defense factor: 4
Armor: 4
Morale bonus: 7
Walk speed: 6
Run speed: 10
Charge speed: 12
Yuan Imperial Heavy Cavalry
Men: 60
Cost 1200
Charge bonus: 4
Attack factor: 3
Defense factor: 5
Armor: 5
Morale bonus: 8
Walk speed: 8
Run speed: 20
Charge speed: 22
Mongol Heavy Cavalry
Men: 60
Cost 1000
Charge bonus: 4
Attack factor: 3 (4)
Defense factor: 3
Armor: 4
Morale bonus: 7
Walk speed: 10
Run speed: 20
Charge speed: 22
Mongol Light Cavalry
Men: 60
Cost 700
Charge bonus: 3
Attack factor: 0
Defense factor: 2
Armor: 3
Morale bonus: 6
Walk speed: 10
Run speed: 22
Charge speed: 24
Ammo: 36
Reload: 4 sec
Range 100 meters
Accuracy: 0.6
Lethality: 14%
Power: 1
Armor modifier: 1.0
Yuan Imperial Horsearchers
Men: 60
Cost 500
Charge bonus: 2
Attack factor: 0
Defense factor: 0
Armor: 2
Morale bonus: 4
Walk speed: 10
Run speed: 22
Charge speed: 24
Ammo: 36
Reload: 4 sec
Range 100 meters
Accuracy: 0.6
Lethality: 12%
Power: 1
Armor modifier: 1.0
Mongol Keshig
Men: 11
Cost 400
Charge bonus: 5
Attack factor: 4
Defense factor: 6
Armor: 5
Morale bonus: 8
Walk speed: 8
Run speed: 22
Charge speed: 24
Ammo: 12
Reload: 4 sec
Range 120 meters
Accuracy: 0.6
Lethality: 18%
Power: 1
Armor modifier: 0.5
Song Crossbowman
Men: 60
Cost 300
Charge bonus: 0
Attack factor: -7
Defense factor: -4 (-7)
Armor: 2
Morale bonus: 0
Walk speed: 7
Run speed: 12
Charge speed: 12
Ammo: 20
Reload: 21 sec
Range 100 meters
Accuracy: 0.12
Lethality: 72%
Power: 4
Armor modifier: 0.015
Korean Skirmishers
Men: 60
Cost 300
Charge bonus: 0
Attack factor: -2
Defense factor: 1
Armor: 2
Morale bonus: 4
Walk speed: 6
Run speed: 8
Charge speed: 10
Ammo: 3
Reload: 4 sec
Range 50 meters
Accuracy: 0.12
Lethality: 20%
Power: 4
Armor modifier: 1.0
Yuan Imperial Archers
Men: 60
Cost 400
Charge bonus: 2
Attack factor: 0
Defense factor: 0
Armor: 2
Morale bonus: 4
Walk speed: 6
Run speed: 10
Charge speed: 12
Ammo: 36
Reload: 4 sec
Range 100 meters
Accuracy: 0.6
Lethality: 12%
Power: 1
Armor modifier: 1.0
Korean Spearman
Men: 60
Cost 200
Charge bonus: 0
Attack factor: -1 (4)
Defense factor: -1 (-4)
Armor: 2
Morale bonus: 4
Walk speed: 7
Run speed: 12
Charge speed: 14
Korean Guardsman
Men: 60
Cost 700
Charge bonus: 2
Attack factor: 0
Defense factor: 4
Armor: 4
Morale bonus: 7
Walk speed: 6
Run speed: 10
Charge speed: 12
Yuan Imperial Heavy Cavalry
Men: 60
Cost 1200
Charge bonus: 4
Attack factor: 3
Defense factor: 5
Armor: 5
Morale bonus: 8
Walk speed: 8
Run speed: 20
Charge speed: 22
Mongol Heavy Cavalry
Men: 60
Cost 1000
Charge bonus: 4
Attack factor: 3 (4)
Defense factor: 3
Armor: 4
Morale bonus: 7
Walk speed: 10
Run speed: 20
Charge speed: 22
Mongol Light Cavalry
Men: 60
Cost 700
Charge bonus: 3
Attack factor: 0
Defense factor: 2
Armor: 3
Morale bonus: 6
Walk speed: 10
Run speed: 22
Charge speed: 24
Ammo: 36
Reload: 4 sec
Range 100 meters
Accuracy: 0.6
Lethality: 14%
Power: 1
Armor modifier: 1.0
Yuan Imperial Horsearchers
Men: 60
Cost 500
Charge bonus: 2
Attack factor: 0
Defense factor: 0
Armor: 2
Morale bonus: 4
Walk speed: 10
Run speed: 22
Charge speed: 24
Ammo: 36
Reload: 4 sec
Range 100 meters
Accuracy: 0.6
Lethality: 12%
Power: 1
Armor modifier: 1.0
Last edited by ^HUN^ on Mon 21 Jul 2008, 15:46; edited 1 time in total (Reason for editing : Added Keshig unit)
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Re: Mongol unit stats
by ^Glyndwr^ Mon 21 Jul 2008, 13:29
Added the Unit Heading colour.
One thing I'm not familiar with....what does the number in (..) stand for?
For example...Defense factor: -4 (-7)
...^Glyndwr^
One thing I'm not familiar with....what does the number in (..) stand for?
For example...Defense factor: -4 (-7)
...^Glyndwr^
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Re: Mongol unit stats
by barocca Mon 21 Jul 2008, 14:16
NOTE - using your stats as a starting point,
re: Yuan / Mongol Cav, i would think mongol are best, yuan are wannabe's??
also i'm not a unit stat editor person,
for missile troops please just tell me which weapon to use from projectiles, and how much ammo,
is reload set in stats or projectiles? - if in stats then tell me reload time
all the other missile factors mean nothing to me.
do we need another weapon in projectiles??
i am assuming parenthesis are cav bonus att/def??
PLEASE QUOTE AND EDIT SO IT IS ONLY ONE LIST
NOW what i have got are lists of possible troop types.
C(charge) A(attack) D(defence) M(morale) Arm(armour) Wpn(weapon/s) Shl(shield) W(walk) R(run) Ch(charge) (extra details)
C() A() D() M() Arm() Wpn() Shl() W() R() Ch() ()
Mongol Cavalry
Pure Blood Mongols, the elite, excellent morale (fight to death types)
Yuan Imperial Cavalry
Elite Career Troops, almost fanatical, but with something to prove (may charge)
Yuan Imperial Guard Infantry
Elite Career Troops, almost fanatical, but with something to prove (may charge)
Han Chun Infantry
Regular Army, capable but realists.
Korean Guard
The cream of the Korean Army, except they dont want to be here in Japan, while skilled they are quite capable of leaving the scene at a great rate of knots
Korean Conscripts
These guys REALLY dont want to be here, but are just as afraid of their masters as their enemies.
Song Tribal Medium Cavalry
Song Tribal Medium Infantry
These peoples have been a "natural" buffer between China and her warlike southern neighbours for generations. They are the first to suffer in any such war and while reluctant participants in this invasion are enjoying handing out the kind of treatment to the locals that they themsleves are usually on the recieving end of.
RECKLESS, good charge, little "stamina" for a prolonged fight.
Cavalry - horse armour - is that a stat?? if so heavy = full, HA's = barded, L-cav = none
Mongol Heavy C(6) A(3) D(3) M(8) Arm(4) Wpn(lance) Shl(nil) W(10) R(20) Ch(22)
(anti cav+1/0, not panicked, disciplined, samurai ???, 60 men/1000 koku)
Mongol Light C(3) A(0) D(2) M(8) Arm(3) Wpn(bow/axe) Shl(nil) W(10) R(22) Ch(24)
(not panicked, disciplined, samurai ???, 60/700)
Yuan Heavy C(4) A(3) D(5) M(6) Arm(5) Wpn(sword) Shl(small) W(8) R(20) Ch(22)
(60/1200)
Yuan HorseArchers C(2) A(0) D(0) M(4) Arm(2) Wpn(bow/sword) Shl(small) W(10) R(22) Ch(24)
(60/500)
Yuan Light C(6) A(2) D(2) M(0) Arm(4) Wpn(spear) Shl(small) W(10) R(24) Ch(26)
(anti cav+1/-1, ??/???)
(all song cav = no horse armour??) (VVgood charge, very reckless, very fast, but not "tidy" formation, no "stamina")
Song Tribal Medium Cavalry #1 C() A() D() M() Arm() Wpn(sword) Shl(small) W() R() Ch()
(almost certain charge)
Song Tribal Medium Cavalry #2 C() A() D() M() Arm() Wpn(spear) Shl(small) W() R() Ch()
(anti cav+2/-2 almost certain charge)
Song Tribal HorseArchers C() A() D() M() Arm() Wpn(bow/sword) Shl() W() R() Ch()
(almost certain charge)
INFANTRY IN THE MORNING
re: Yuan / Mongol Cav, i would think mongol are best, yuan are wannabe's??
also i'm not a unit stat editor person,
for missile troops please just tell me which weapon to use from projectiles, and how much ammo,
is reload set in stats or projectiles? - if in stats then tell me reload time
all the other missile factors mean nothing to me.
do we need another weapon in projectiles??
i am assuming parenthesis are cav bonus att/def??
PLEASE QUOTE AND EDIT SO IT IS ONLY ONE LIST
NOW what i have got are lists of possible troop types.
C(charge) A(attack) D(defence) M(morale) Arm(armour) Wpn(weapon/s) Shl(shield) W(walk) R(run) Ch(charge) (extra details)
C() A() D() M() Arm() Wpn() Shl() W() R() Ch() ()
Mongol Cavalry
Pure Blood Mongols, the elite, excellent morale (fight to death types)
Yuan Imperial Cavalry
Elite Career Troops, almost fanatical, but with something to prove (may charge)
Yuan Imperial Guard Infantry
Elite Career Troops, almost fanatical, but with something to prove (may charge)
Han Chun Infantry
Regular Army, capable but realists.
Korean Guard
The cream of the Korean Army, except they dont want to be here in Japan, while skilled they are quite capable of leaving the scene at a great rate of knots
Korean Conscripts
These guys REALLY dont want to be here, but are just as afraid of their masters as their enemies.
Song Tribal Medium Cavalry
Song Tribal Medium Infantry
These peoples have been a "natural" buffer between China and her warlike southern neighbours for generations. They are the first to suffer in any such war and while reluctant participants in this invasion are enjoying handing out the kind of treatment to the locals that they themsleves are usually on the recieving end of.
RECKLESS, good charge, little "stamina" for a prolonged fight.
Cavalry - horse armour - is that a stat?? if so heavy = full, HA's = barded, L-cav = none
Mongol Heavy C(6) A(3) D(3) M(8) Arm(4) Wpn(lance) Shl(nil) W(10) R(20) Ch(22)
(anti cav+1/0, not panicked, disciplined, samurai ???, 60 men/1000 koku)
Mongol Light C(3) A(0) D(2) M(8) Arm(3) Wpn(bow/axe) Shl(nil) W(10) R(22) Ch(24)
(not panicked, disciplined, samurai ???, 60/700)
Yuan Heavy C(4) A(3) D(5) M(6) Arm(5) Wpn(sword) Shl(small) W(8) R(20) Ch(22)
(60/1200)
Yuan HorseArchers C(2) A(0) D(0) M(4) Arm(2) Wpn(bow/sword) Shl(small) W(10) R(22) Ch(24)
(60/500)
Yuan Light C(6) A(2) D(2) M(0) Arm(4) Wpn(spear) Shl(small) W(10) R(24) Ch(26)
(anti cav+1/-1, ??/???)
(all song cav = no horse armour??) (VVgood charge, very reckless, very fast, but not "tidy" formation, no "stamina")
Song Tribal Medium Cavalry #1 C() A() D() M() Arm() Wpn(sword) Shl(small) W() R() Ch()
(almost certain charge)
Song Tribal Medium Cavalry #2 C() A() D() M() Arm() Wpn(spear) Shl(small) W() R() Ch()
(anti cav+2/-2 almost certain charge)
Song Tribal HorseArchers C() A() D() M() Arm() Wpn(bow/sword) Shl() W() R() Ch()
(almost certain charge)
INFANTRY IN THE MORNING
Last edited by barocca on Mon 21 Jul 2008, 14:27; edited 3 times in total (Reason for editing : smilies)
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Registration date : 2008-07-21
Re: Mongol unit stats
by ^HUN^ Mon 21 Jul 2008, 15:18
Numbers in parenthesis are anti cav bonus.
Barocca,
I know what you mean about all those numbers, some are obvious and others not and I'm not too certain where they are all to be found. Maybe R'as could shed more light on those. I just copied them from Yuuki's post on 11b stats and adjusted accordingly to suit Mongols.
My suggested 'Yuan Imperial' units sound grand but are meant to depict Chin/Jurchen Chinese troops trained along Mongol guidelines. In other words, they look the part but are somewhat inferior. The Yuan HC is still effective in certain siuations but MHC would be the workhorse. Likewise the MLC will be a far better HA than the Yuan HA.
Barocca,
I know what you mean about all those numbers, some are obvious and others not and I'm not too certain where they are all to be found. Maybe R'as could shed more light on those. I just copied them from Yuuki's post on 11b stats and adjusted accordingly to suit Mongols.
My suggested 'Yuan Imperial' units sound grand but are meant to depict Chin/Jurchen Chinese troops trained along Mongol guidelines. In other words, they look the part but are somewhat inferior. The Yuan HC is still effective in certain siuations but MHC would be the workhorse. Likewise the MLC will be a far better HA than the Yuan HA.
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Registration date : 2008-05-22
Re: Mongol unit stats
by barocca Tue 22 Jul 2008, 05:48
INFANTRY
(in this topic and cav in other topic)
changed NOTE - have done most, comments, changes and fill gaps pls.
these are not intended to be finals,
you guys are much more experienced at this part that i am
PLEASE suggest stat numbers for Cavalry and Infantry
(maybe look at the MTW unit guides, or through the unit stats in the mod)
(NEED NAMES for types)
Yuan Imperial Guard Infantry
Polearm C(5) A(4) D(3) M(10) Arm(5) Wpn(pole) Shl(LG) W(6) R(10) Ch(11) (anti-cav ?/?, armour piercing)
Sword _C(3) A(3) D(4) M(8) Arm(5) Wpn(sword) Shl(LG) W(6) R(10) Ch(11) ()
Axe ___C(4) A(3) D(2) M(8) Arm(5) Wpn(axe) Shl(LG) W(6) R(10) Ch(11) (armour piercing)
Spear _C(5) A(1) D(5) M(6) Arm(5) Wpn(spear) Shl(LG) W(6) R(10) Ch(11) (anti-cav ?/?)
Bow ___C(2) A(3) D(3) M(6) Arm(4) Wpn(bow) Shl(LG) W(7) R(12) Ch(12) ()
Han-Chun
Sword _C(2) A(2) D(3) M(8) Arm(4) Wpn(sword) Shl(sml) W(6) R(10) Ch(12) ()
Axe ___C(4) A(2) D(2) M(6) Arm(3) Wpn(axe) Shl() W(6) R(10) Ch(12) (armour piercing)
Spear _C(4) A(0) D(1) M(6) Arm(3) Wpn(spear) Shl(??) W(6) R(10) Ch(12) (anti-cav ?/?)
Bow __C(2) A(1) D(1) M(4) Arm(2) Wpn(bow) Shl(??) W(6) R(12) Ch(14) ()
X-Bow C(0) A(-2) D(-2) M(4) Arm(2) Wpn(xbow) Shl(LG) W(6) R(12) Ch(12) ()
Korean Guard
Polearm __C(2) A(0) D(4) M(6) Arm(4) Wpn(pole) Shl(LG) W(7) R(10) Ch(12) (anti-cav ?/?, armour piercing)
Sword ___C(1) A(2) D(4) M(6) Arm(4) Wpn(sword) Shl(sml) W(7) R(12) Ch(14) (medium infantry)
Grenadiers C(1) A(0) D(2) M(4) Arm(2) Wpn() Shl() W(7) R(12) Ch(14) (armour piercing)
Korean Conscripts
Spearmen ____C(0) A(-1) D(-1) M(4) Arm(2) Wpn(spear) Shl() W(7) R(12) Ch(14)
(anti-cav ?/?, PIKEMEN, 100 men)
Skirmishers ___C(0) A(-2) D(1) M(4) Arm(2) Wpn(jav) Shl(LG) W(7) R(10) Ch(12) (anti-cav ?/?, armour piercing)
Light Archers _C(1) A(-4) D(-4) M(2) Arm(1) Wpn(bow) Shl() W(7) R(12) Ch(14) ()
Song Tribal Medium Infantry
Polearm C() A() D() M(4) Arm() Wpn() Shl() W() R() Ch() ()
Axe ___C() A() D() M(4) Arm() Wpn() Shl() W() R() Ch() (armour piercing)
Spear __C() A() D() M(2) Arm() Wpn() Shl() W() R() Ch() ()
Bow ___C(2) A(-2) D(-2) M(2) Arm() Wpn() Shl() W() R() Ch() ()
X-Bow _C(0) A(-7) D(-4) M(2) Arm(2) Wpn(xbow) Shl() W(7) R(12) Ch(12) (armour piercing)
(in this topic and cav in other topic)
changed NOTE - have done most, comments, changes and fill gaps pls.
these are not intended to be finals,
you guys are much more experienced at this part that i am
PLEASE suggest stat numbers for Cavalry and Infantry
(maybe look at the MTW unit guides, or through the unit stats in the mod)
(NEED NAMES for types)
Yuan Imperial Guard Infantry
Polearm C(5) A(4) D(3) M(10) Arm(5) Wpn(pole) Shl(LG) W(6) R(10) Ch(11) (anti-cav ?/?, armour piercing)
Sword _C(3) A(3) D(4) M(8) Arm(5) Wpn(sword) Shl(LG) W(6) R(10) Ch(11) ()
Axe ___C(4) A(3) D(2) M(8) Arm(5) Wpn(axe) Shl(LG) W(6) R(10) Ch(11) (armour piercing)
Spear _C(5) A(1) D(5) M(6) Arm(5) Wpn(spear) Shl(LG) W(6) R(10) Ch(11) (anti-cav ?/?)
Bow ___C(2) A(3) D(3) M(6) Arm(4) Wpn(bow) Shl(LG) W(7) R(12) Ch(12) ()
Han-Chun
Sword _C(2) A(2) D(3) M(8) Arm(4) Wpn(sword) Shl(sml) W(6) R(10) Ch(12) ()
Axe ___C(4) A(2) D(2) M(6) Arm(3) Wpn(axe) Shl() W(6) R(10) Ch(12) (armour piercing)
Spear _C(4) A(0) D(1) M(6) Arm(3) Wpn(spear) Shl(??) W(6) R(10) Ch(12) (anti-cav ?/?)
Bow __C(2) A(1) D(1) M(4) Arm(2) Wpn(bow) Shl(??) W(6) R(12) Ch(14) ()
X-Bow C(0) A(-2) D(-2) M(4) Arm(2) Wpn(xbow) Shl(LG) W(6) R(12) Ch(12) ()
Korean Guard
Polearm __C(2) A(0) D(4) M(6) Arm(4) Wpn(pole) Shl(LG) W(7) R(10) Ch(12) (anti-cav ?/?, armour piercing)
Sword ___C(1) A(2) D(4) M(6) Arm(4) Wpn(sword) Shl(sml) W(7) R(12) Ch(14) (medium infantry)
Grenadiers C(1) A(0) D(2) M(4) Arm(2) Wpn() Shl() W(7) R(12) Ch(14) (armour piercing)
Korean Conscripts
Spearmen ____C(0) A(-1) D(-1) M(4) Arm(2) Wpn(spear) Shl() W(7) R(12) Ch(14)
(anti-cav ?/?, PIKEMEN, 100 men)
Skirmishers ___C(0) A(-2) D(1) M(4) Arm(2) Wpn(jav) Shl(LG) W(7) R(10) Ch(12) (anti-cav ?/?, armour piercing)
Light Archers _C(1) A(-4) D(-4) M(2) Arm(1) Wpn(bow) Shl() W(7) R(12) Ch(14) ()
Song Tribal Medium Infantry
Polearm C() A() D() M(4) Arm() Wpn() Shl() W() R() Ch() ()
Axe ___C() A() D() M(4) Arm() Wpn() Shl() W() R() Ch() (armour piercing)
Spear __C() A() D() M(2) Arm() Wpn() Shl() W() R() Ch() ()
Bow ___C(2) A(-2) D(-2) M(2) Arm() Wpn() Shl() W() R() Ch() ()
X-Bow _C(0) A(-7) D(-4) M(2) Arm(2) Wpn(xbow) Shl() W(7) R(12) Ch(12) (armour piercing)
Last edited by barocca on Tue 22 Jul 2008, 14:09; edited 2 times in total
barocca- Nomad
- Number of posts : 200
Registration date : 2008-07-21
Re: Mongol unit stats
by ^Glyndwr^ Tue 22 Jul 2008, 13:57
Perhaps you can find some idea for the numbers information you want here...
http://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php?t=31444
It will mean a lot of scrolling.
http://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php?t=31444
It will mean a lot of scrolling.
^Glyndwr^- Administrator
- Number of posts : 843
Location : Wales UK. In the mountains. Searching!! Searching!!
Registration date : 2008-05-20 -
Re: Mongol unit stats
by barocca Tue 22 Jul 2008, 14:12
^^ done some - check post^^
just missed you it seems - sleep me now, tired yes, no time for myself for a day or two, my legal battle just restarted...not happy, but wont take much to put right - if the judge listens to me tomorrow...
just missed you it seems - sleep me now, tired yes, no time for myself for a day or two, my legal battle just restarted...not happy, but wont take much to put right - if the judge listens to me tomorrow...
^Glyndwr^ wrote:Perhaps you can find some idea for the numbers information you want here...
http://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php?t=31444
It will mean a lot of scrolling.
barocca- Nomad
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Registration date : 2008-07-21
^Glyndwr^- Administrator
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Registration date : 2008-05-20 -
Re: Mongol unit stats
by ^HUN^ Wed 23 Jul 2008, 01:30
With the polearm units I would not give anti cav. As for names for types, you've listed, for example, Han-Chun with five weapon categories. You want a name for each of these? And the same with the others?
Correct me if I'm wrong but are the beta 8 SP and MP stats different?
Correct me if I'm wrong but are the beta 8 SP and MP stats different?
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Re: Mongol unit stats
by barocca Wed 23 Jul 2008, 05:48
SP i am not worrying about at the moment,
names for all "sub-faction"/weapon combos would be good,
do we want all types for MP?
SAM STATS FOR COMPARISON
HA long (samurai) w8 r22 c24 chg5 att4 def6 arm5 mor8 (SWORD) catt cdef disciplined
HC none (samurai) w8 r20 c22 chg5 att3 def5 arm5 mor8 (SWORD) catt cdef uncontrolled
NC none (samurai) w8 r20 c22 chg4 att4 def2 arm4 mor8 (SWORD) catt cdef uncontrolled
YC none (samurai) w10 r24 c26 chg4 att2 def2 arm3 mor6 (SWORD) catt4 cdef normal
CA sbow (samurai) w8 r20 c22 chg3 att0 def1 arm3 mor6 (SWORD) catt cdef disciplined
YA none (nix_sam) w7 r12 c14 chg0 att-1 def-1 arm2 mor4 (SPEAR) catt5 cdef5 normal
YS none (samurai) w6 r10 c12 chg0 att0 def2 arm3 mor6 (SPEAR) catt5 cdef5 normal
SA sbow (samurai) w6 r10 c12 chg2 att0 def0 arm2 mor4 (SWORD) catt cdef normal
ND none (samurai) w7 r12 c14 chg8 att5 def-2 arm1 mor10 (SWORD) catt cdef uncontrolled
NA none (samurai) w6 r8 c10 chg2 att0 def6 arm5 mor8 ( AXE ) catt cdef disciplined
MO none (samurai) w7 r12 c14 chg4 att5 def2 arm1 mor10 ( AXE ) catt cdef uncontrolled
NI ninj (samurai) w8 r14 c16 chg4 att8 def6 arm2 mor10 (SWORD) catt cdef normal
JM arqb (nix_sam) w7 r12 c12 chg0 att-7 def-4 arm2 mor0 (SWORD) catt0 cdef-3 normal
PM hgun (nix_sam) w7 r12 c12 chg0 att-7 def-4 arm2 mor0 (SWORD) catt0 cdef-3 normal
AX xbow (nix_sam) w7 r12 c12 chg0 att-6 def-3 arm2 mor-4 (SWORD) catt0 cdef-3 normal
names for all "sub-faction"/weapon combos would be good,
do we want all types for MP?
SAM STATS FOR COMPARISON
HA long (samurai) w8 r22 c24 chg5 att4 def6 arm5 mor8 (SWORD) catt cdef disciplined
HC none (samurai) w8 r20 c22 chg5 att3 def5 arm5 mor8 (SWORD) catt cdef uncontrolled
NC none (samurai) w8 r20 c22 chg4 att4 def2 arm4 mor8 (SWORD) catt cdef uncontrolled
YC none (samurai) w10 r24 c26 chg4 att2 def2 arm3 mor6 (SWORD) catt4 cdef normal
CA sbow (samurai) w8 r20 c22 chg3 att0 def1 arm3 mor6 (SWORD) catt cdef disciplined
YA none (nix_sam) w7 r12 c14 chg0 att-1 def-1 arm2 mor4 (SPEAR) catt5 cdef5 normal
YS none (samurai) w6 r10 c12 chg0 att0 def2 arm3 mor6 (SPEAR) catt5 cdef5 normal
SA sbow (samurai) w6 r10 c12 chg2 att0 def0 arm2 mor4 (SWORD) catt cdef normal
ND none (samurai) w7 r12 c14 chg8 att5 def-2 arm1 mor10 (SWORD) catt cdef uncontrolled
NA none (samurai) w6 r8 c10 chg2 att0 def6 arm5 mor8 ( AXE ) catt cdef disciplined
MO none (samurai) w7 r12 c14 chg4 att5 def2 arm1 mor10 ( AXE ) catt cdef uncontrolled
NI ninj (samurai) w8 r14 c16 chg4 att8 def6 arm2 mor10 (SWORD) catt cdef normal
JM arqb (nix_sam) w7 r12 c12 chg0 att-7 def-4 arm2 mor0 (SWORD) catt0 cdef-3 normal
PM hgun (nix_sam) w7 r12 c12 chg0 att-7 def-4 arm2 mor0 (SWORD) catt0 cdef-3 normal
AX xbow (nix_sam) w7 r12 c12 chg0 att-6 def-3 arm2 mor-4 (SWORD) catt0 cdef-3 normal
Last edited by barocca on Wed 23 Jul 2008, 09:06; edited 3 times in total (Reason for editing : added sam stats)
barocca- Nomad
- Number of posts : 200
Registration date : 2008-07-21
Re: Mongol unit stats
by barocca Wed 23 Jul 2008, 13:38
OKI
Han-chun - Single Player only (maybe a cheap reinfircement for mongol in second era of MI campaign)
Song - minimalised, (again maybe a cheap replacement in third era MI campaign)
so here's what's left Sams vs Mongols (and subjects) - DO THE MONGOLS NEED ANYTHING ELSE??
and please add costs as well, rememberi MOST mongols/yuan will have shields.
(korean guard sword will also have a shield)
YIC=Yuan Imperial Cavalry / MHC=Mongol Heavy Cav / MLC=Mongol Light Cav / YHA=YuanHorse Archers
STC=Song Tribal Cavalry /
KGP=Korean Guard Polearm / KGS=Korean Guard Sword / KGA=Korean Guard Grenadiers
KSK=Korean Skirmishers / KLA=Korean Light Archers / KCS=Korean Conscript Spearmen
YPA=Yuan Pole Arm / YSP=Yuan Spearmen / YSW=Yuan Swordsmen / YAX=Yuan Axemen
YIA=Yuan Imperial Archers / STA=Song Tribal Archers / STX=Song Tribal Crossbows
HA long (samurai) w8 r22 c24 chg5 att4 def6 arm5 mor8 (SWORD) catt cdef disciplined
HC none (samurai) w8 r20 c22 chg5 att3 def5 arm5 mor8 (SWORD) catt cdef uncontrolled
*YIC none (samurai) w8 r20 c22 chg5 att3 def5 arm5 mor8 (SWORD) catt cdef uncontrolled (LG SHIELD MELLEE)
NC none (samurai) w8 r20 c22 chg4 att4 def2 arm4 mor8 (SWORD) catt cdef uncontrolled
YC none (samurai) w10 r24 c26 chg4 att2 def2 arm3 mor6 (SWORD) catt4 cdef normal
*MHC none (samurai) w8 r20 c22 chg4 att3 def2 arm6 mor10 (SWORD) catt2 cdef disciplined
CA sbow (samurai) w8 r20 c22 chg3 att0 def1 arm3 mor6 (SWORD) catt cdef disciplined
*MLC long (samurai) w10 r22 c24 chg3 att0 def1 arm2 mor8 ( AXE ) catt cdef disciplined (armour pierce)
*YHA sbow (samurai) w8 r20 c22 chg2 att0 def1 arm2 mor6 (SWORD) catt cdef uncontrolled
*STC none (nix-sam) w10 r24 c26 chg3 att0 def-1 arm2 mor8 (SWORD) catt3 cdef uncontrolled
YA none (nix_sam) w7 r12 c14 chg0 att-1 def-1 arm2 mor4 (SPEAR) catt5 cdef5 normal
*KCS none (nix_sam) w7 r12 c14 chg0 att-1 def-1 arm2 mor4 (SPEAR) catt4 cdef4 normal (PIKEMEN)
YS none (samurai) w6 r10 c12 chg0 att0 def2 arm3 mor6 (SPEAR) catt5 cdef5 normal
ND none (samurai) w7 r12 c14 chg8 att5 def-2 arm1 mor10 (SWORD) catt cdef uncontrolled
*YPA none (samurai) w6 r8 c10 chg5 att4 def3 arm5 mor10 (SPEAR) catt2 cdef2 uncontrolled (armour pierce)
*YSP none (samurai) w6 r8 c10 chg5 att1 def5 arm4 mor8 (SPEAR) catt4 cdef4 uncontrolled
*YSW none (samurai) w6 r8 c10 chg2 att3 def4 arm5 mor10 (SWORD) catt cdef uncontrolled
*YAX none (samurai) w6 r8 c10 chg4 att3 def2 arm4 mor6 ( AXE ) catt cdef uncontrolled
*KGS none (samurai) w7 r12 c14 chg1 att4 def4 arm3 mor5 (SWORD) catt cdef normal
NA none (samurai) w6 r8 c10 chg2 att0 def6 arm5 mor8 ( AXE ) catt cdef disciplined
*KGP none (samurai) w7 r10 c12 chg2 att0 def6 arm3 mor5 ( AXE ) catt1 cdef1 normal (armour pierce)
MO none (samurai) w7 r12 c14 chg4 att5 def2 arm1 mor10 ( AXE ) catt cdef uncontrolled
NI ninj (samurai) w8 r14 c16 chg4 att8 def6 arm2 mor10 (SWORD) catt cdef normal
SA sbow (samurai) w6 r10 c12 chg2 att0 def0 arm2 mor4 (SWORD) catt cdef normal
JM arqb (nix_sam) w7 r12 c12 chg0 att-7 def-4 arm2 mor0 (SWORD) catt0 cdef-3 normal
PM hgun (nix_sam) w7 r12 c12 chg0 att-7 def-4 arm2 mor0 (SWORD) catt0 cdef-3 normal
AX xbow (nix_sam) w7 r12 c12 chg0 att-6 def-3 arm2 mor-4 (SWORD) catt0 cdef-3 normal
*KSK jav (nix_sam) w7 r10 c12 chg2 att1 def-2 arm1 mor4 (SWORD) catt1 cdef1 normal (armour pierce)
*KLA long (nix-sam) w7 r12 c14 chg1 att-4 def-4 arm1 mor2 (SWORD) catt cdef normal
*KGA gren (samurai) w7 r12 c14 chg0 att-2 def1 arm2 mor4 (SWORD) catt0 cdef0 normal
*YIA sbow (samurai) w6 r10 c12 chg2 att0 def0 arm2 mor4 (SWORD) catt cdef uncontrolled
*STA sbow (nix-sam) w7 r12 c12 chg0 att-2 def-2 arm1 mor-2 (SWORD) catt cdef normal
*STX xbow (nix-sam) w7 r12 c12 chg0 att-7 def-4 arm2 mor0 (SWORD) catt cdef normal
Han-chun - Single Player only (maybe a cheap reinfircement for mongol in second era of MI campaign)
Song - minimalised, (again maybe a cheap replacement in third era MI campaign)
so here's what's left Sams vs Mongols (and subjects) - DO THE MONGOLS NEED ANYTHING ELSE??
and please add costs as well, rememberi MOST mongols/yuan will have shields.
(korean guard sword will also have a shield)
YIC=Yuan Imperial Cavalry / MHC=Mongol Heavy Cav / MLC=Mongol Light Cav / YHA=YuanHorse Archers
STC=Song Tribal Cavalry /
KGP=Korean Guard Polearm / KGS=Korean Guard Sword / KGA=Korean Guard Grenadiers
KSK=Korean Skirmishers / KLA=Korean Light Archers / KCS=Korean Conscript Spearmen
YPA=Yuan Pole Arm / YSP=Yuan Spearmen / YSW=Yuan Swordsmen / YAX=Yuan Axemen
YIA=Yuan Imperial Archers / STA=Song Tribal Archers / STX=Song Tribal Crossbows
HA long (samurai) w8 r22 c24 chg5 att4 def6 arm5 mor8 (SWORD) catt cdef disciplined
HC none (samurai) w8 r20 c22 chg5 att3 def5 arm5 mor8 (SWORD) catt cdef uncontrolled
*YIC none (samurai) w8 r20 c22 chg5 att3 def5 arm5 mor8 (SWORD) catt cdef uncontrolled (LG SHIELD MELLEE)
NC none (samurai) w8 r20 c22 chg4 att4 def2 arm4 mor8 (SWORD) catt cdef uncontrolled
YC none (samurai) w10 r24 c26 chg4 att2 def2 arm3 mor6 (SWORD) catt4 cdef normal
*MHC none (samurai) w8 r20 c22 chg4 att3 def2 arm6 mor10 (SWORD) catt2 cdef disciplined
CA sbow (samurai) w8 r20 c22 chg3 att0 def1 arm3 mor6 (SWORD) catt cdef disciplined
*MLC long (samurai) w10 r22 c24 chg3 att0 def1 arm2 mor8 ( AXE ) catt cdef disciplined (armour pierce)
*YHA sbow (samurai) w8 r20 c22 chg2 att0 def1 arm2 mor6 (SWORD) catt cdef uncontrolled
*STC none (nix-sam) w10 r24 c26 chg3 att0 def-1 arm2 mor8 (SWORD) catt3 cdef uncontrolled
YA none (nix_sam) w7 r12 c14 chg0 att-1 def-1 arm2 mor4 (SPEAR) catt5 cdef5 normal
*KCS none (nix_sam) w7 r12 c14 chg0 att-1 def-1 arm2 mor4 (SPEAR) catt4 cdef4 normal (PIKEMEN)
YS none (samurai) w6 r10 c12 chg0 att0 def2 arm3 mor6 (SPEAR) catt5 cdef5 normal
ND none (samurai) w7 r12 c14 chg8 att5 def-2 arm1 mor10 (SWORD) catt cdef uncontrolled
*YPA none (samurai) w6 r8 c10 chg5 att4 def3 arm5 mor10 (SPEAR) catt2 cdef2 uncontrolled (armour pierce)
*YSP none (samurai) w6 r8 c10 chg5 att1 def5 arm4 mor8 (SPEAR) catt4 cdef4 uncontrolled
*YSW none (samurai) w6 r8 c10 chg2 att3 def4 arm5 mor10 (SWORD) catt cdef uncontrolled
*YAX none (samurai) w6 r8 c10 chg4 att3 def2 arm4 mor6 ( AXE ) catt cdef uncontrolled
*KGS none (samurai) w7 r12 c14 chg1 att4 def4 arm3 mor5 (SWORD) catt cdef normal
NA none (samurai) w6 r8 c10 chg2 att0 def6 arm5 mor8 ( AXE ) catt cdef disciplined
*KGP none (samurai) w7 r10 c12 chg2 att0 def6 arm3 mor5 ( AXE ) catt1 cdef1 normal (armour pierce)
MO none (samurai) w7 r12 c14 chg4 att5 def2 arm1 mor10 ( AXE ) catt cdef uncontrolled
NI ninj (samurai) w8 r14 c16 chg4 att8 def6 arm2 mor10 (SWORD) catt cdef normal
SA sbow (samurai) w6 r10 c12 chg2 att0 def0 arm2 mor4 (SWORD) catt cdef normal
JM arqb (nix_sam) w7 r12 c12 chg0 att-7 def-4 arm2 mor0 (SWORD) catt0 cdef-3 normal
PM hgun (nix_sam) w7 r12 c12 chg0 att-7 def-4 arm2 mor0 (SWORD) catt0 cdef-3 normal
AX xbow (nix_sam) w7 r12 c12 chg0 att-6 def-3 arm2 mor-4 (SWORD) catt0 cdef-3 normal
*KSK jav (nix_sam) w7 r10 c12 chg2 att1 def-2 arm1 mor4 (SWORD) catt1 cdef1 normal (armour pierce)
*KLA long (nix-sam) w7 r12 c14 chg1 att-4 def-4 arm1 mor2 (SWORD) catt cdef normal
*KGA gren (samurai) w7 r12 c14 chg0 att-2 def1 arm2 mor4 (SWORD) catt0 cdef0 normal
*YIA sbow (samurai) w6 r10 c12 chg2 att0 def0 arm2 mor4 (SWORD) catt cdef uncontrolled
*STA sbow (nix-sam) w7 r12 c12 chg0 att-2 def-2 arm1 mor-2 (SWORD) catt cdef normal
*STX xbow (nix-sam) w7 r12 c12 chg0 att-7 def-4 arm2 mor0 (SWORD) catt cdef normal
barocca- Nomad
- Number of posts : 200
Registration date : 2008-07-21
Re: Mongol unit stats
by barocca Wed 23 Jul 2008, 14:00
now,
i will try to give many of the mongol archer/xbow Axes so that i can make them armour piercing in mellee,
polearms are traditionally given anti cav and i'd like to do that plus make 'em armour piercing,
i want mongol to play differently,
i want to give the mognol faction some unusual units,
longbows for the korean light archers, pike bonus for korean spears, good morale for korean grenadiers,
(leaving us with a viscious korean lineup if we ever split them off from the mongol)
i want the japanese to be reluctant to use too much cavalry, because korean infantry will be cav killers,
yuan infantry are heavly armoured, high morale, but slower and EXPENSIVE
when recommending costs please take into account morale and armour,
(but i'd not add much in the way of cost for armour piercing)
still v.busy, some more paperwork to do tomorrow,
(dont expect me to be awake at 3/4am - it was a long day compounded by drenching rain, freezing winds, buses not running on all routes and long walks to alternate stops with small children in tow)
(and journeys which i have to repaet tomorrow)
if you guys can give me costs and any changes i will do my damndest to modify the current "imposters" and add in the rest so we can do some playtesting this weekend (i will finish the official artwork and naming later).
:bow:
i will try to give many of the mongol archer/xbow Axes so that i can make them armour piercing in mellee,
polearms are traditionally given anti cav and i'd like to do that plus make 'em armour piercing,
i want mongol to play differently,
i want to give the mognol faction some unusual units,
longbows for the korean light archers, pike bonus for korean spears, good morale for korean grenadiers,
(leaving us with a viscious korean lineup if we ever split them off from the mongol)
i want the japanese to be reluctant to use too much cavalry, because korean infantry will be cav killers,
yuan infantry are heavly armoured, high morale, but slower and EXPENSIVE
when recommending costs please take into account morale and armour,
(but i'd not add much in the way of cost for armour piercing)
still v.busy, some more paperwork to do tomorrow,
(dont expect me to be awake at 3/4am - it was a long day compounded by drenching rain, freezing winds, buses not running on all routes and long walks to alternate stops with small children in tow)
(and journeys which i have to repaet tomorrow)
if you guys can give me costs and any changes i will do my damndest to modify the current "imposters" and add in the rest so we can do some playtesting this weekend (i will finish the official artwork and naming later).
:bow:
barocca- Nomad
- Number of posts : 200
Registration date : 2008-07-21
Re: Mongol unit stats
by ^HUN^ Wed 23 Jul 2008, 23:35
With so many units, I think it would be easier to give them simple names with reference to their weapon, that way people can easily identify the units use.
Yuan units all preceded by 'Yuan Imperial'
Song units by 'Song' or 'Song Tribal' Cross bows as 'Zhuge-Nu' (the repeating xbow)
Korean conscripts by 'Korean'
Grenadier should be replaced with Thunder Bomber
The polearm units could be named 'glaives' though this is usually applied in the west to a broadsword, the ancient Chinese glaive was a naginata-like weapon with a wide blade at one end and a point at the other. It is also depicted in artwork as a weapon used on horse back, so maybe an alternative for Song cav (you listed two types?) This unit could have a good charge but poor melee to depict the unwieldy nature of the weapon in limited space.
Cost..
Song Cav ....... 900/800 koku
Song units ...... 200/300 (archer/xbow)
Yuan units .... 1000/900/800/700/500 (guard/axe/sword/spear/archer)
Korean units ..... 700/500/400/300/200/200 (guard/sword/archer/TB/skirmisher/spear)
Possibly..
Drop the Korean sword, (re-introduce when Korea as a faction? They could also get their Hwarang cav) entirely your call but this could be a great add on to the add on. I'm just thinking aloud here, Japanese have nine infantry types including ninja, archers and teppos and it doesn't seem fair to give the Mongols too much choice here. I would prefer to see the Mongol player faced with the dilema of going cav heavy or inf heavy, hence I've hiked the Yuan units which could even be 100 koku higher for each. With high armour and/or armour piercing units like these, is it the intention that they will be weak against monks? They have to have a weakness.
Korean archery was good so I priced them to match Japanese SA.
Yuan units all preceded by 'Yuan Imperial'
Song units by 'Song' or 'Song Tribal' Cross bows as 'Zhuge-Nu' (the repeating xbow)
Korean conscripts by 'Korean'
Grenadier should be replaced with Thunder Bomber
The polearm units could be named 'glaives' though this is usually applied in the west to a broadsword, the ancient Chinese glaive was a naginata-like weapon with a wide blade at one end and a point at the other. It is also depicted in artwork as a weapon used on horse back, so maybe an alternative for Song cav (you listed two types?) This unit could have a good charge but poor melee to depict the unwieldy nature of the weapon in limited space.
Cost..
Song Cav ....... 900/800 koku
Song units ...... 200/300 (archer/xbow)
Yuan units .... 1000/900/800/700/500 (guard/axe/sword/spear/archer)
Korean units ..... 700/500/400/300/200/200 (guard/sword/archer/TB/skirmisher/spear)
Possibly..
Drop the Korean sword, (re-introduce when Korea as a faction? They could also get their Hwarang cav) entirely your call but this could be a great add on to the add on. I'm just thinking aloud here, Japanese have nine infantry types including ninja, archers and teppos and it doesn't seem fair to give the Mongols too much choice here. I would prefer to see the Mongol player faced with the dilema of going cav heavy or inf heavy, hence I've hiked the Yuan units which could even be 100 koku higher for each. With high armour and/or armour piercing units like these, is it the intention that they will be weak against monks? They have to have a weakness.
Korean archery was good so I priced them to match Japanese SA.
^HUN^- Nomad
- Number of posts : 291
Location : vanished without trace
Registration date : 2008-05-22
Re: Mongol unit stats
by barocca Thu 24 Jul 2008, 07:35
we could leave out korean sword easily enough,
I think only one type song cav, a sword unit that is as fast as YC, but will not match them in mellee
(liking the simplicity of naming - suits me fine
i KNOW puzz does not like using "afraid of", but what exactly does "afraid of" actually do?
making Yuan afraid of monks would be to my liking,
a japanese player then NEEDS some monks just in case the mongol goes Yuan Inf Heavy...
:bow:
YIC=Yuan Imperial Cavalry / MHC=Mongol Heavy Cav / MLC=Mongol Light Cav / YHA=YuanHorse Archers
STC=Song Tribal Cavalry /
KGP=Korean Guard Polearm / KGS=Korean Guard Sword / KGA=Korean Guard Grenadiers
KSK=Korean Skirmishers / KLA=Korean Light Archers / KCS=Korean Conscript Spearmen
YPA=Yuan Pole Arm / YSP=Yuan Spearmen / YSW=Yuan Swordsmen / YAX=Yuan Axemen
YIA=Yuan Imperial Archers / STA=Song Tribal Archers / STX=Song Tribal Crossbows
HA long (samurai) w8 r22 c24 chg5 att4 def6 arm5 mor8 (SWORD) catt cdef disciplined
HC none (samurai) w8 r20 c22 chg5 att3 def5 arm5 mor8 (SWORD) catt cdef uncontrolled
*YIC none (samurai) w8 r20 c22 chg5 att3 def5 arm5 mor8 (SWORD) catt cdef uncontrolled 1200k
NC none (samurai) w8 r20 c22 chg4 att4 def2 arm4 mor8 (SWORD) catt cdef uncontrolled
YC none (samurai) w10 r24 c26 chg4 att2 def2 arm3 mor6 (SWORD) catt4 cdef normal
*MHC none (samurai) w8 r20 c22 chg4 att3 def2 arm6 mor10 (SWORD) catt2 cdef disciplined 1000k
CA sbow (samurai) w8 r20 c22 chg3 att0 def1 arm3 mor6 (SWORD) catt cdef disciplined
*MLC long (samurai) w10 r22 c24 chg3 att0 def1 arm2 mor8 ( AXE ) catt cdef disciplined 700k (arm pierce)
*YHA sbow (samurai) w8 r20 c22 chg2 att0 def1 arm2 mor6 (SWORD) catt cdef uncontrolled 500k
*STC none (nix-sam) w10 r24 c26 chg3 att0 def-1 arm2 mor8 (SWORD) catt3 cdef uncontrolled 800k
YA none (nix_sam) w7 r12 c14 chg0 att-1 def-1 arm2 mor4 (SPEAR) catt5 cdef5 normal
*KCS none (nix_sam) w7 r12 c14 chg0 att-1 def-1 arm2 mor4 (SPEAR) catt4 cdef4 normal 200k (PIKEMEN)
YS none (samurai) w6 r10 c12 chg0 att0 def2 arm3 mor6 (SPEAR) catt5 cdef5 normal
ND none (samurai) w7 r12 c14 chg8 att5 def-2 arm1 mor10 (SWORD) catt cdef uncontrolled
*YPA none (samurai) w6 r8 c10 chg5 att4 def3 arm5 mor10 (SPEAR) catt2 cdef2 uncontrolled 1000k (armour pierce)
*YSP none (samurai) w6 r8 c10 chg5 att1 def5 arm4 mor8 (SPEAR) catt4 cdef4 uncontrolled 700k
*YSW none (samurai) w6 r8 c10 chg2 att3 def4 arm5 mor10 (SWORD) catt cdef uncontrolled 800k
*YAX none (samurai) w6 r8 c10 chg4 att3 def2 arm4 mor6 ( AXE ) catt cdef uncontrolled 900k
*KGS none (samurai) w7 r12 c14 chg1 att4 def4 arm3 mor5 (SWORD) catt cdef normal 500k DROP?
NA none (samurai) w6 r8 c10 chg2 att0 def6 arm5 mor8 ( AXE ) catt cdef disciplined
*KGP none (samurai) w7 r10 c12 chg2 att0 def6 arm3 mor5 ( AXE ) catt1 cdef1 normal 700k (armour pierce)
MO none (samurai) w7 r12 c14 chg4 att5 def2 arm1 mor10 ( AXE ) catt cdef uncontrolled
NI ninj (samurai) w8 r14 c16 chg4 att8 def6 arm2 mor10 (SWORD) catt cdef normal
SA sbow (samurai) w6 r10 c12 chg2 att0 def0 arm2 mor4 (SWORD) catt cdef normal
JM arqb (nix_sam) w7 r12 c12 chg0 att-7 def-4 arm2 mor0 (SWORD) catt0 cdef-3 normal
PM hgun (nix_sam) w7 r12 c12 chg0 att-7 def-4 arm2 mor0 (SWORD) catt0 cdef-3 normal
AX xbow (nix_sam) w7 r12 c12 chg0 att-6 def-3 arm2 mor-4 (SWORD) catt0 cdef-3 normal
*KSK jav (nix_sam) w7 r10 c12 chg2 att1 def-2 arm1 mor4 (SWORD) catt1 cdef1 normal 200k (armour pierce)
*KLA long (nix-sam) w7 r12 c14 chg1 att-4 def-4 arm1 mor2 (SWORD) catt cdef normal 400k
*KGA gren (samurai) w7 r12 c14 chg0 att-2 def1 arm2 mor4 (SWORD) catt0 cdef0 normal 300k
*YIA sbow (samurai) w6 r10 c12 chg2 att0 def0 arm2 mor4 (SWORD) catt cdef uncontrolled 500k
*STA sbow (nix-sam) w7 r12 c12 chg0 att-2 def-2 arm1 mor-2 (SWORD) catt cdef normal 200k
*STX xbow (nix-sam) w7 r12 c12 chg0 att-7 def-4 arm2 mor0 (SWORD) catt cdef normal 300k
but what exactly does "afraid of" actually do?
I think only one type song cav, a sword unit that is as fast as YC, but will not match them in mellee
(liking the simplicity of naming - suits me fine
i KNOW puzz does not like using "afraid of", but what exactly does "afraid of" actually do?
making Yuan afraid of monks would be to my liking,
a japanese player then NEEDS some monks just in case the mongol goes Yuan Inf Heavy...
:bow:
YIC=Yuan Imperial Cavalry / MHC=Mongol Heavy Cav / MLC=Mongol Light Cav / YHA=YuanHorse Archers
STC=Song Tribal Cavalry /
KGP=Korean Guard Polearm / KGS=Korean Guard Sword / KGA=Korean Guard Grenadiers
KSK=Korean Skirmishers / KLA=Korean Light Archers / KCS=Korean Conscript Spearmen
YPA=Yuan Pole Arm / YSP=Yuan Spearmen / YSW=Yuan Swordsmen / YAX=Yuan Axemen
YIA=Yuan Imperial Archers / STA=Song Tribal Archers / STX=Song Tribal Crossbows
HA long (samurai) w8 r22 c24 chg5 att4 def6 arm5 mor8 (SWORD) catt cdef disciplined
HC none (samurai) w8 r20 c22 chg5 att3 def5 arm5 mor8 (SWORD) catt cdef uncontrolled
*YIC none (samurai) w8 r20 c22 chg5 att3 def5 arm5 mor8 (SWORD) catt cdef uncontrolled 1200k
NC none (samurai) w8 r20 c22 chg4 att4 def2 arm4 mor8 (SWORD) catt cdef uncontrolled
YC none (samurai) w10 r24 c26 chg4 att2 def2 arm3 mor6 (SWORD) catt4 cdef normal
*MHC none (samurai) w8 r20 c22 chg4 att3 def2 arm6 mor10 (SWORD) catt2 cdef disciplined 1000k
CA sbow (samurai) w8 r20 c22 chg3 att0 def1 arm3 mor6 (SWORD) catt cdef disciplined
*MLC long (samurai) w10 r22 c24 chg3 att0 def1 arm2 mor8 ( AXE ) catt cdef disciplined 700k (arm pierce)
*YHA sbow (samurai) w8 r20 c22 chg2 att0 def1 arm2 mor6 (SWORD) catt cdef uncontrolled 500k
*STC none (nix-sam) w10 r24 c26 chg3 att0 def-1 arm2 mor8 (SWORD) catt3 cdef uncontrolled 800k
YA none (nix_sam) w7 r12 c14 chg0 att-1 def-1 arm2 mor4 (SPEAR) catt5 cdef5 normal
*KCS none (nix_sam) w7 r12 c14 chg0 att-1 def-1 arm2 mor4 (SPEAR) catt4 cdef4 normal 200k (PIKEMEN)
YS none (samurai) w6 r10 c12 chg0 att0 def2 arm3 mor6 (SPEAR) catt5 cdef5 normal
ND none (samurai) w7 r12 c14 chg8 att5 def-2 arm1 mor10 (SWORD) catt cdef uncontrolled
*YPA none (samurai) w6 r8 c10 chg5 att4 def3 arm5 mor10 (SPEAR) catt2 cdef2 uncontrolled 1000k (armour pierce)
*YSP none (samurai) w6 r8 c10 chg5 att1 def5 arm4 mor8 (SPEAR) catt4 cdef4 uncontrolled 700k
*YSW none (samurai) w6 r8 c10 chg2 att3 def4 arm5 mor10 (SWORD) catt cdef uncontrolled 800k
*YAX none (samurai) w6 r8 c10 chg4 att3 def2 arm4 mor6 ( AXE ) catt cdef uncontrolled 900k
*KGS none (samurai) w7 r12 c14 chg1 att4 def4 arm3 mor5 (SWORD) catt cdef normal 500k DROP?
NA none (samurai) w6 r8 c10 chg2 att0 def6 arm5 mor8 ( AXE ) catt cdef disciplined
*KGP none (samurai) w7 r10 c12 chg2 att0 def6 arm3 mor5 ( AXE ) catt1 cdef1 normal 700k (armour pierce)
MO none (samurai) w7 r12 c14 chg4 att5 def2 arm1 mor10 ( AXE ) catt cdef uncontrolled
NI ninj (samurai) w8 r14 c16 chg4 att8 def6 arm2 mor10 (SWORD) catt cdef normal
SA sbow (samurai) w6 r10 c12 chg2 att0 def0 arm2 mor4 (SWORD) catt cdef normal
JM arqb (nix_sam) w7 r12 c12 chg0 att-7 def-4 arm2 mor0 (SWORD) catt0 cdef-3 normal
PM hgun (nix_sam) w7 r12 c12 chg0 att-7 def-4 arm2 mor0 (SWORD) catt0 cdef-3 normal
AX xbow (nix_sam) w7 r12 c12 chg0 att-6 def-3 arm2 mor-4 (SWORD) catt0 cdef-3 normal
*KSK jav (nix_sam) w7 r10 c12 chg2 att1 def-2 arm1 mor4 (SWORD) catt1 cdef1 normal 200k (armour pierce)
*KLA long (nix-sam) w7 r12 c14 chg1 att-4 def-4 arm1 mor2 (SWORD) catt cdef normal 400k
*KGA gren (samurai) w7 r12 c14 chg0 att-2 def1 arm2 mor4 (SWORD) catt0 cdef0 normal 300k
*YIA sbow (samurai) w6 r10 c12 chg2 att0 def0 arm2 mor4 (SWORD) catt cdef uncontrolled 500k
*STA sbow (nix-sam) w7 r12 c12 chg0 att-2 def-2 arm1 mor-2 (SWORD) catt cdef normal 200k
*STX xbow (nix-sam) w7 r12 c12 chg0 att-7 def-4 arm2 mor0 (SWORD) catt cdef normal 300k
but what exactly does "afraid of" actually do?
barocca- Nomad
- Number of posts : 200
Registration date : 2008-07-21
Re: Mongol unit stats
by ^HUN^ Thu 24 Jul 2008, 11:28
Probably introduces a morale penalty similar to when the General dies?
One Song cav with sword is fine, maybe think about the other one later? I just liked the sound of a cav with a good charge but little else, one to use wisely.
The Yuan inf unit costs I am still pondering, I'm considering making them more expensive. At a standard 9k, I would not want to see Mongol player have the option of these PLUS good cav as well. So it's a fine line between.....
Yuan inf...redundant, there are other decent enough inf and I can get good cav.
Yuan inf...exploited, woohoo look at these robo cops and I got great cav as well and all for just 9k!!!
Right now I'm thinking of adding 100 - 200 koku per unit.
You understand my thoughts?
Would appreciate opinions of other members too.
One Song cav with sword is fine, maybe think about the other one later? I just liked the sound of a cav with a good charge but little else, one to use wisely.
The Yuan inf unit costs I am still pondering, I'm considering making them more expensive. At a standard 9k, I would not want to see Mongol player have the option of these PLUS good cav as well. So it's a fine line between.....
Yuan inf...redundant, there are other decent enough inf and I can get good cav.
Yuan inf...exploited, woohoo look at these robo cops and I got great cav as well and all for just 9k!!!
Right now I'm thinking of adding 100 - 200 koku per unit.
You understand my thoughts?
Would appreciate opinions of other members too.
^HUN^- Nomad
- Number of posts : 291
Location : vanished without trace
Registration date : 2008-05-22
Re: Mongol unit stats
by ^Glyndwr^ Thu 24 Jul 2008, 13:21
My observations.....
I am not a numbers cruncher so am not familiar with all the numbers shown.
What I can add is, I would like to see the mongols match-up with jap.
To explain easier....
xbow v Teppo
archer v SA
spear v YS
sword v NI
armoured v WM
etc etc etc
That is the best way that I can describe them.
Hope this helps
I am not a numbers cruncher so am not familiar with all the numbers shown.
What I can add is, I would like to see the mongols match-up with jap.
To explain easier....
xbow v Teppo
archer v SA
spear v YS
sword v NI
armoured v WM
etc etc etc
That is the best way that I can describe them.
Hope this helps
^Glyndwr^- Administrator
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Location : Wales UK. In the mountains. Searching!! Searching!!
Registration date : 2008-05-20 -
Re: Mongol unit stats
by ^HUN^ Thu 24 Jul 2008, 14:43
Ok, I'll run this by you .....
Yuan Imperial Infantry units...
Guard......1200
Axe .......1100
Sword ....1000
Spear ..... 800
Archer..... 600
With these costs, the player who decides to go for an Imperial army will be restricted in his choice of cav.
Side Note...
Mongol Keshig..11 man Generals unit
Same price and stats as Hatamoto?
Yuan Imperial Infantry units...
Guard......1200
Axe .......1100
Sword ....1000
Spear ..... 800
Archer..... 600
With these costs, the player who decides to go for an Imperial army will be restricted in his choice of cav.
Side Note...
Mongol Keshig..11 man Generals unit
Same price and stats as Hatamoto?
^HUN^- Nomad
- Number of posts : 291
Location : vanished without trace
Registration date : 2008-05-22
Re: Mongol unit stats
by ^Glyndwr^ Thu 24 Jul 2008, 16:04
Seems to be a big difference in the costs compared to jap that we use in games now.....^HUN^ wrote:Yuan Imperial Infantry units...
Guard......1200
Axe .......1100
Sword ....1000
Spear ..... 800
Archer..... 600
With these costs, the player who decides to go for an Imperial army will be restricted in his choice of cav.
xbow v (Teppo.......300)
archer v (SA..........400)
spear v (YS...........400)
sword v (NI...........800)
armoured v (WM....1000)
Yes, I would agree with this. A good choice for Gen at same price and stats.^HUN^ wrote:Side Note...
Mongol Keshig..11 man Generals unit
Same price and stats as Hatamoto?
^Glyndwr^- Administrator
- Number of posts : 843
Location : Wales UK. In the mountains. Searching!! Searching!!
Registration date : 2008-05-20 -
Re: Mongol unit stats
by ^HUN^ Thu 24 Jul 2008, 18:45
Yes, that's right, a big difference and for a reason. They have to be priced so that an army of Yaun infantry is limited in the cav they can field. Without this restriction, players would opt for Yuan inf with decent cav and ignore cheaper Korean and Song units.^Glyndwr^ wrote:Seems to be a big difference in the costs compared to jap that we use in games now.....
xbow v (Teppo.......300)
archer v (SA..........400)
spear v (YS...........400)
sword v (NI...........800)
armoured v (WM....1000)
With these new units Barocca is introducing, I'd like to see them all being used. Remember, on old 10b stats the NI was redundant until I suggested their morale was too low for an elite unit costing 800 koku. Looking at this unit roster I see many army composition possibilities, meaning the battles will be far less predictable.
I had a thought (and I've still not dismissed it) about adding another Japanese inf unit. There, I've said it ...anyone think this would be a good idea?
My own idea....
Simply called Samurai (or Katana Samurai) a sword unit with more armour than Nodachi, less than NI. Faster than NI but slower than Nodachi. Offensive stats somewhere between Nodachi and Monk. Cost 700 koku.
^HUN^- Nomad
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Location : vanished without trace
Registration date : 2008-05-22
Re: Mongol unit stats
by Tomisama Fri 25 Jul 2008, 12:25
^HUN^ wrote:
Simply called Samurai (or Katana Samurai) a sword unit with more armour than Nodachi, less than NI. Faster than NI but slower than Nodachi. Offensive stats somewhere between Nodachi and Monk. Cost 700 koku.
The KS has been something that has been needed for a long time
Tomisama- Member
- Number of posts : 3
Registration date : 2008-06-15
Re: Mongol unit stats
by barocca Fri 25 Jul 2008, 13:51
still looking ofr true effect of afraid of status
would invite all to read this thread (it SUPERCEDES and is better than both twcenter and org wiki's)
MTW numerology <-LINK
right now am exhausted, been three days entrenched in paperwork and red tape,
have finally got the important half of desired result (email me if detail is important),
HAVE had a ball with my son in breaks, trains and buses, rain and puddles, pinics and feezing winds,
will likely Not wake up in time to play tonight,
:-(
i think i have decided on unit anims for various chines/mongol units,
just got to add good weapons and shileds
was wondering what would you guys think of giving the korean swords a large non-mellee shield and single (1) javelin
- anyone who has paid close attention to my concentrated infantry assaults will know exactly WHY i'd love that...
would invite all to read this thread (it SUPERCEDES and is better than both twcenter and org wiki's)
MTW numerology <-LINK
right now am exhausted, been three days entrenched in paperwork and red tape,
have finally got the important half of desired result (email me if detail is important),
HAVE had a ball with my son in breaks, trains and buses, rain and puddles, pinics and feezing winds,
will likely Not wake up in time to play tonight,
:-(
i think i have decided on unit anims for various chines/mongol units,
just got to add good weapons and shileds
was wondering what would you guys think of giving the korean swords a large non-mellee shield and single (1) javelin
- anyone who has paid close attention to my concentrated infantry assaults will know exactly WHY i'd love that...
Last edited by ^Glyndwr^ on Fri 25 Jul 2008, 17:20; edited 1 time in total (Reason for editing : Admin: Added colour to Link)
barocca- Nomad
- Number of posts : 200
Registration date : 2008-07-21
Re: Mongol unit stats
by barocca Fri 25 Jul 2008, 14:09
mongol general can be done, (MAY use an metw man) and can use a very different horse to change look (i have several to choose from, including a horse with a faction cloak (ideal for metw man))
new jap units planned FOR MP and SP
ashi-archers
katana samurai (no-dachi in faction coloured suits - with no-dachi going back to RED suits only)
yari sams (armed w nagai in faction coloured suits - faster, less armour, 1 extra attack, 1 extra def, same morale)
monk faction uniques for MP and SP
extra tough monks (in monk suits - with faction monks now wearing faction coloured suits)
monk cavalry (two types - elite and regular)
bad monk infantry (several weapons)
ashigaru (with halberds in faction coloured suits)
naginata (extra morale naginata in faction coloured suits)
yari sams (have speicial coloured ones - uncertain of weapon, maybe pike!!!)
other for rebel faction for SP ONLY
ronin (grey no-dachi) an elite rebel only unit
ashigaru (armed with naginata in grey coloured suits)
monks (in grey coloured suits - uncertain which way to go,possibly more morale, less skill, lose samurai status)
yari sams (in grey suits - lose samurai status, but more attack, less anti cav, more defence, more morale)
:bow:
new jap units planned FOR MP and SP
ashi-archers
katana samurai (no-dachi in faction coloured suits - with no-dachi going back to RED suits only)
yari sams (armed w nagai in faction coloured suits - faster, less armour, 1 extra attack, 1 extra def, same morale)
monk faction uniques for MP and SP
extra tough monks (in monk suits - with faction monks now wearing faction coloured suits)
monk cavalry (two types - elite and regular)
bad monk infantry (several weapons)
ashigaru (with halberds in faction coloured suits)
naginata (extra morale naginata in faction coloured suits)
yari sams (have speicial coloured ones - uncertain of weapon, maybe pike!!!)
other for rebel faction for SP ONLY
ronin (grey no-dachi) an elite rebel only unit
ashigaru (armed with naginata in grey coloured suits)
monks (in grey coloured suits - uncertain which way to go,possibly more morale, less skill, lose samurai status)
yari sams (in grey suits - lose samurai status, but more attack, less anti cav, more defence, more morale)
:bow:
barocca- Nomad
- Number of posts : 200
Registration date : 2008-07-21
Re: Mongol unit stats
by ^HUN^ Fri 25 Jul 2008, 16:03
If all goes well we will be in the lobby for quite a while, no need for you to crawl to the PC at 4am 
^HUN^- Nomad
- Number of posts : 291
Location : vanished without trace
Registration date : 2008-05-22
Re: Mongol unit stats
by ^Glyndwr^ Fri 25 Jul 2008, 17:06
I agree with ^HUN^ I shall be in the lobby for as long as I can stay awake. 
We have some ideas we want to try.
We have some ideas we want to try.
^Glyndwr^- Administrator
- Number of posts : 843
Location : Wales UK. In the mountains. Searching!! Searching!!
Registration date : 2008-05-20 -
Re: Mongol unit stats
by ^Glyndwr^ Fri 25 Jul 2008, 17:24
barocca wrote:would invite all to read this thread (it SUPERCEDES and is better than both twcenter and org wiki's)
MTW numerology <-LINK
An excellent thread. Good reading. Thank you.
^Glyndwr^- Administrator
- Number of posts : 843
Location : Wales UK. In the mountains. Searching!! Searching!!
Registration date : 2008-05-20 -
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