Samurai Warlords patch 0907 - 5 September 2008

[barocca]

Could NOT change the picture in the menu from beta8 to beta9 - i dont have THAT font...



changelog

mongol cav - activated shield, cav +2 (no mellee) - cav attack now +3

monk - cav -4A +2D (please test carefully - maybe -4 is too much change)

STC from 800k down to 600k

YIL from 900k up to 1000k (reactivated)

activated Ashi-Xbow with small (+1) NON-melee shield (formed)

resorted formation tasking for sams

adjusted scale for korean spear and skirm

all xbows and merc teppo morale to zero (from -2/-4)

NEW review panel and battle card icons for
Mongol Heavy Cavalry
Mongol Horse Archers

fixed some artifacts in MHA (primary bleed and axe)
changed MHA dead to use Keshig dead

added RECONSTRUCTED Samurai Archer animations, including NEW reload sequence
(PLEASE observe carefully see if i made any mistakes in indexing/addressing)

added / restored (and repaired) RED Nodachi for all factions
(the faction coloured no-dachi animation will be used for a new unit type)

added / repaired Arquebus animation files

added / recoloured AshiXbow animation AND a new actions page
(the old ashixbow animation will be reused for a different unit)

added / recoloured and repaired Warrior Monk animation
(the old monk animation has also been repaired and will be used for the Monk faction)

added / recoloured and repaired Naginata animation
(the old animation will be reused for specific faction/s)

(visual only) rescaled much of the cavalry to be 7% larger.

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

the clothing changes to some units, especially monks, will take some getting used to,
yari sams and ashi also have new colours on the way,

the total idea is that Monk and Rebel factions will have an array of unique units that did not require me to go and make all new animation,
if you look closely at the Song units for example, and then go look at the base MTW files they came from you will notice a fair bit of tweaking their clothing colouration.

PLEASE test WM's carefully, i worry that the -4 vs cav may be too much, I have not had the time to comprehensively test them.

PLEASE test MHArchers AP ability - i think you will like the result, but maybe they are now too strong?
maybe they need to be a fraction more expensive??

Samurai 0907 - click me to download

[^HUN^]

I think the new review panel/icons look very smart, they look far better mid gallop. You'll have to do the same for the other cav units, especially STC and YIL which look very similar.
Ashi crossbows look nice too.
Initial test, Monks are losing to MHC but inflicting a lot of damage, that looks promising.

STC new cost suits it better.

Not had chance to look at too much so far.

[^HUN^]

Samurai archers animation is gorgeous, I wish MTW units were as detailed as STW. You can actually see the bow, which is sharp and better scaled, bending as it's drawn, even an arrow. When loosed, the bow returns to braced height and the reload sequence is wicked.
Compared with the blobby bent stick, same shape throughout and no arrow archers in MTW, it's plain to see how CA did not maintain the standard.

Would like to run a few battles for a better idea about MHA, I think they are more useable at 700 though.
Just a note in case people are not aware, YIHA having the 'uncontrolled' trait, will sometimes enter into melee instead of skirmishing. It's worth keeping your eye on these to keep them from making fools of themselves.

[barocca]

...YIHA having the 'uncontrolled' trait, will sometimes enter into melee instead of skirmishing...

my hope is such quirks make the mongols more interesting as a faction, HA's that are EAGER to get into a mellee could also surprise an unwary human opponent... and when units enter an uncontrolled charge they get their charge bonus and a +4 morale boost

[^Glyndwr^]

From the few tests I have run....

Review panel/icons....brilliant work.
Overall appearance of units.....brilliant. (could be mistaken for watching a film on tv )
Arrows, xbow bolts and javelins in flight......awsome.
The cav look really great (especially the 'black')

Unit matchups so far has been limited time but....
YILC v YC ...fought to almost the last man
MHHC v NC...3:1 kill rate in favour of MHC
YIMC v HSC...2:1 kill rate in favour of YIHC
All tested on a 1 v 1 basis units allowed to charge each other.
Those MHA are really something now. I like the axe animation in h2h.

As I said time has been short ATM but will make time to be online (20.00 BST) if anyone wants to test.

p.s.....B check your pm

[^HUN^]

Just got home from the Historical archery event. Tired and weary but I'll be online to test.

Oh, just thought I'd add....Alex is compound unlimited junior World Champion. Superb result.

[^Glyndwr^]

Have a deserved rest. I shall be relaxing for the rest of the evening.

Congrats to the champion.

[^HUN^]

Sat in the lobby for 2 hours. We need to test online far more than we are doing at present.

[^HUN^]

Nobody turned up so I made a map instead. I'm ready to test 9.07 any night so we need to decide when.

[^Glyndwr^]

Visited the foyer a few times. Only people online were eight players on VI so I logged off.

[barocca]

alternate weeks i have extra children here and cannot be online.
even on normal weeks the only times i can be online is friday/saturday evening UK time, UNLESS i have an RDO or pub hol on the Monday, in which case i could also be online Sunday eve UK.
the rest of the week i have a zillon things to do in the mornings,
MY evening is your morning and the ONLY time i could be online is from right now for about 90 minutes maxx, providing all is right with the world here.

[^HUN^]

Sunday night there were 12 players in the lobby including myself. I left after a couple of hours and just left msn messenger open. In the end I decided to make a map because it was another no show night.

Timezones have always been a problem, but there are at least three of us who are within an hour of each other. Me and Marcus cannot host so we are relying on either Glyndwr or Kazemoto. Last week me and Marcus were on msn all week and unable to do anything.

We need to pit various Mongol formations against Japanese, it is a far better way to determine what is going on than unit v unit on LAN.

So to those who can host, please give us an idea of times that you are available.

[^Glyndwr^]

The three times I logged on to the foyer you were not there.
There were eight players each time I looked (I can name them).
So it was not another no show night for me.

I informed you Marcus would not be available Saturday and Sunday eveing. I cannot answer for other players.

msn open?? each time I looked on msn your name changed to 'busy' so I took it that you were doing something else and didn't want to be disturbed.

You were aware of why I wasn't on last week. As for hosting....open your router ports, you have the same model as me, then you could host for when I am not online.

[^HUN^]

MSN online status automatically switches to busy when you are in the lobby, I thought you knew that.

Players in lobby....
3 from Heerban
2 Hunters, Hikaru and George
Can critter
5 from that HM? clan, Conquerer and 4 others.
Scurvy Cur
and myself.

You did say you were going to explain which ports to open, so yes that would be a great help.

[barocca]

i think portforward.com would be of help
they have guides for routers and game/router combo's
do NOT download their software, it is not neccesary, (and it costs money)

[barocca]

how goes the unit balance?


i am rebuilding the ashi-arch bif at the moment,
it is a lot of work, with 4 composite frames to be edited and overlayed to ensure a good colour change,
some people (at CA) were VERY lazy making the original, lots of colour bleed to be corrected,
once the 4 overlays are finished and overlayed, then i have to run the frames in and out of a bif to correct the last bits of colour bleed,
then make it back into a bif.

the end result will be a pestunic bif, with grey shirt sleeves and leggings (instead of bright orange and white), and with a full primary coloured tunic. (it wont look like a pestunic based unit, thats for sure)
i never did like the bright orange sleeves for pestunic archers...what was that all about anyway??

[^HUN^]

how goes the unit balance?

Certain Mongol armies do OK, namely Japanese 'clones', others do less well.

the end result will be a pestunic bif, with grey shirt sleeves and leggings (instead of bright orange and white), and with a full primary coloured tunic. (it wont look like a pestunic based unit, thats for sure)
i never did like the bright orange sleeves for pestunic archers...what was that all about anyway??

You lost me?

[^Marcus Cornelius^]

Balance is going better, imo: jap can no more walk on mongols.
Surely mongols are superior in missiles and not overwhelmed in infantry.
It seems that mongol infantry can match jap. But we need more tests in anycase.
I could not test mongol cav vs jap cav in an MP battle.
That is for me my next step.

Marcus

[barocca]

i am not understanding reference to clones, there is only 1 clone unit, hatamoto/keshig,
all others have differences,
all mongol cav is better than equiv japanese cav, also better survive vs missiles,
mongol foot is less than equiv japanese foot (except xbows),

and as for armies, well, yes, you are going to need some foot, shock, missile and various cav's.
what you bring and what the opponent brings will determine tactical deployment and manouver.
All armies need to concentrate on their strengths.

Japanaese armies need to assault with their foot, support with their guns and bring sufficient anti-cav to defend their flanks,
Mongol armies need to harrass with missiles, stay out of h2h and try to draw the Japanese armies into marching long distances and into getting seperated, and slaughter isolated units before withdrawing out of reach.

MHC are desinged to charge into other Cav, with the added bonus of being heavily shielded against missiles.
MHA's are designed to have a double sting, arrows and AP axes, ideal to harrass, isolate and slaughter.
YGJ (swords) are designed to knock 5 to 10 men from a unit with a javelin toss before hacking in with their swords.
YGP (pole) are AP and designed to charge and charge again, but need to avoid missile units.
KCS (skirms) have a cav def bonus and AP h2h weapons, a usefull flank defence unit and coup de grace.
YGT (tb's) also have AP h2h as well as good morale (their shield has been "lost", that will be fixed next update)

I have sincerely tried to give the Mongol player a whole different set of options with his foot, while man-on-man they may be weaker they have some unique capabilities that can make for an interesting challenge, both to play them to their strengths, and to play against them.

We have also found a role for Japanese Nagi cavalry - as an anti-infantry cav, and while lousy attacking cavalry it is still a strong defender, usefull to pin even the heaviest mongol cav allowing lighter japanese cav time to get to the flank. Sadly while the Nagi cav will stand and fight, it will die.


I think we have a decent balance, we have stepped away from rock/paper/scissors, but have not created any steamroller units.

All we have to do now is make sure the the new units, (katana, kanabo, ashi-archer and so on) do not become steamrollers, Especially the Monk faction (Hoganji) - with them we need to be especially carefull in design.

[^Glyndwr^]

A clearer undertanding now of the units and what they are intended for with your units descriptions in the above post. Not everyone 'reads' things the same way.

[^HUN^]

I'm fully aware of the intended use. What I didn't want to see was a Mongol faction that was best used in the same fashion as Japanese, namely shock cav, inf and missiles. Should you decide to use typical Mongol harassment tactics (horse archers) you are putting your army at a disadvantage. Japanese can simply ignore them and target the inf with a rush. The HA are not going to kill enough with arrows to help the Mongol inf and should they charge in they are not around for long, MHA may have a/p, hit them with YC. To try to avoid this, the Mongols have to field not missile, but shock cav.

Clone reference is army, not unit.

[barocca]

is 2am here and my brain no working N_E_more.
you have all seen me do very unconventional things with conventional units, who would use JHA's as raiders?
I Do.

i am sure we have the balance very close, and the mongols can win with cav tactics,

they need to make the japanese come to them, to rely on their better missiles and cav that can escape to wear down some of the combat power of the jap inf before they reach you, and to keep mongol inf away from harm as long as possible.
then the mongol inf becomes the rock, while the cav become the hammer.

magyar would harrass with his HA's and keep his infantry back, he would make it impossible for a jap to camp, his cav would demonstrate against your flank firing missiles all the time and if you tried to chase them they would simply melt away, if you stayed out too long chasing the HA's then mongolHC would catch you.

i doubt if i have any save games from those days, iirc he would have 4HA's peppering away at you, with heavy cav not far behind. the losses amongst shock troopps (monks and nodachi) would force the japanese player to move.

make the enemey do what you want them to do, and you want the japanese to be on the move, you dont want to assault their line, you want them to assault yours, to disrupt their formations, maybe to expose a flank or two.


let me see some replays so i can judge what is going on??

[^HUN^]

I'm not going to argue about MagyarKhan, he was an exceptional player and I faced that STW cav army of his many times and I know what you mean. But....the important part is he did this as defender or at least, I never met that army when he was attacker. I did the same successfully as defender. Those tactics are less fruitful when you have to attack because archers/guns are more able to target the incoming HA.
As a defender you can sit there and counter against the larger target of horse and rider. Of course, selling back honour helped a lot too, you can't do that now with HA that cost 700 and 500 so you are eating into the efficiency of the rest of your army.

[barocca]

it is not always going to be possible to win,
sometimes you have the wrong mix of units and must simply make the best attempt you can.

we are designing this around a koku limit of 9k.koku, 562.5 koku is the avergae per unit

EDIT --> what i am trying to say is :-
IS THERE a japanese army mix that the mongols simply cannot beat?
(*flat map, dry weather, attacker/defender, 9k.koku, no upgrades)

[^Tomisama^]

Have been checking this forum and seeing no action for a while now. Apperently not logged in

Have 907 and new maps. Any plans for Sunday?

And how close are we to a final mod?

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